Living with Grief and Fatherhood with Quinn Erwin

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You got a decent voice, pretty good songwriter he's like, but you don't have that one song that like is going to put you on the map.

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There's nothing really interesting about you.

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How do you take the criticism like that?

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I didn't let that deflate me.

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I went back and I scrapped my solo record.

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No way.

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I love music because it's a universal language, you know, and we all get to add our note to Times Treble Clef.

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As a music maker, it's this really unique responsibility.

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Happiness, I think, is a very temporal thing.

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It's very like an itch.

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You know that you need to scratch, or joy is got like this.

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It's a constant feeling.

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It's a constant, it's a power.

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It's joy and grief are friends.

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The depth of my grief is the depth of my joy, and so the more that I tend to the hard stuff in my life, it makes my joy more powerful, more real, more felt.

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You know the words I love you, right?

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They seem they're very simple words and we've heard it, heard those words in a thousand songs, but there's some songs where those three words are used and for some reason it hits us differently.

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There's a whole world in our words.

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You know, my dream one day is to be on a big stage and look over and you see them cheering you on.

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You know, wink, I need to succeed, so they succeed what's up guys?

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uh, welcome back to the hit record episode.

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We have another guest and his name is quinn erwin, but I'm gonna have you say your name.

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Do that camera right there all right.

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Hey guys, I'm quinn erwin and uh, yeah, I'm so stoked to be here.

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Keno, thank you for having me, man.

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Thank you for driving all the way here.

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By the way, this is a uh that's a cup.

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Yes, actually a cup.

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That's actually.

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It's funny because I saw that on the table initially and I was like, looked at it for a second I was like, well, that's a cool lens.

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And then I I kind of you know leaned over.

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I was like, well, that's a cool lens.

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And then I I kind of you know leaned over.

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I was like, oh, that is not a lens my the other guest, uh, summer, uh, by the way, the episode will be coming out soon.

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Um, so stay tuned for that summer.

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She kept wondering why I kept holding it and not do anything with it and okay and when I did this so she, she thought like I wonder if she thought you were messing with her or something, or no, most people think it's a cup of toy drink.

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Okay got it but anyways so thank you so much for being here.

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Yeah, man, this is awesome.

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Yeah, and so this episode, guys, we're going to be talking about a lot of things, ranging from his musical career to music licensing and how you can apply what he learned throughout his journey into your own career as well.

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And yeah, stay tuned for it for the rest of the conversation.

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Now, before we get started, don't forget to like and subscribe to this YouTube video.

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On YouTube.

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You can also follow us on Instagram, hidden Record, all the other social platforms it's all going to be in the description below.

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I am not going to list out everyone, but if you want to follow, it's all in the description.

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So are you ready for this, quinn?

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Keno, bring it on man.

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All right, here we go.

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So, quinn, tell us who you are, what you do, your mission in life as a creative and the early influences that sparked your interest as a musician and how you express your creativity.

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Okay, so, um, I'm quinn obviously I said that quinn erwin, um, and I am a working musician and artist and I've been at this for over a decade, which is really wild to say that, but I have been making music since I was about 15.

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So, yeah, 15.

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, but I would say that my interest in music is like farther back than that.

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My dad was a drummer, so I grew up with my dad playing drums and, uh, he, he played in church.

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So I would go with him as a whippersnapper and my parents split pretty early so it's kind of like I was, you know, bouncing between the two of them, but when I was with my dad he would play.

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Um, he's also in the navy so he moved around a lot.

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So I had a lot of different experiences with him playing instruments.

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So he was a drummer and a percussionist.

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So depending on where he was at, he'd either play the kid or he'd have like bongos and congas and shakers and rattles and all kinds of stuff and he had really interesting he still does musical taste.

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So I grew up with a lot of world music and I also grew up with a lot of like Genesis and Toto and like a lot of like Toto.

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Africa Like 80s, like really cool 80s music.

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I know that Genesis people gave Genesis a really hard time at a certain point I've never heard of that actually.

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Well, I mean I think because Phil Collins and Genesis, like to some people, were overplayed, like it became like soft radio, basically Okay, but I think that's silly.

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I think Genesis is amazing.

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But then again, music of itself is always going to be evolving, yeah, so, yes, it could be overplayed, but there will never be a music that, in my opinion, that stays the same.

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It always takes on a different form up.

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Yeah, well, I think my dad liked Genesis because I think in a way he views Genesis and if my dad ever listens or sees this he can correct me if I'm wrong.

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But Genesis is kind of like an underdog band.

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Okay, you know, like they were.

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You know, early Genesis is very like prog rock-y, and then eventually Genesis is like more like radio once they had a membership change in the band.

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But I like the whole canon personally.

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Peter Gabriel was the original lead singer of Genesis.

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So, yeah, canon personally.

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Uh, peter gabriel was the original lead singer of genesis.

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So yeah, so uh, okay, we didn't already like uh, on the same level as the big name artists or bands at the time, like queen.

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Yeah, yeah, like you're like, uh, you know, you're gonna know, you know back in that time, um, you know, yes, uh, pink floyd, like like a lot of those kind of prog-rocky acts or whatever.

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Genesis would have been known like a lot of those bands and they were just kind of doing their own thing.

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So, anyway, you're good yeah yeah, so beyond that, when I was with my mom it was a lot of like 80s radio, so there's like Tears for Fears, madonna, michael Jackson, like 80s radio.

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So there's like Tears for Fears, madonna, michael Jackson.

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And then my mom was a single mom and she moved us in with my grandparents and so when I lived with my grandparents I got really close to my uncle, who's only like nine years older than me.

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So he's kind of like my big brother.

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He's more like a brother than uncle and so he's a teenager and'm growing up in, um, the mtv generation.

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So like I'm seeing you know, uh, bon jovi and poison, you know the talking heads and and um, peter gabriel, uh, on mtv.

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So david bowie, like all these, this new, this new thing with with videos and music videos and stuff, right, I'm like growing up watching this.

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So music is, in that sense, it's like really fascinating to me because it's got that visual component.

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And so as I'm growing up, I'm always listening to the radio, always interested in music.

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When I was with my dad I would try to jump behind the kit.

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I was always humming stuff or trying to put words and melody together.

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But it's like you know, it's an instinct, but it's not like I know this is a thing you do.

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This is you can have a career with this, necessarily, right, but inevitably.

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As a kid I like in like third grade I asked my mom if I could invite some friends over and form a group.

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Oh, okay, so yeah.

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So I had some, and it quickly devolved into us chasing each other around my grandparents' house.

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So nothing ever came of it.

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But yeah.

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So music was always in my life.

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It was a thing I enjoyed, it was something that moved me.

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Would you say your father?

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Has he said anything about whenever he listened to your own interpretation of your own music and how you express your voice?

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Oh, yeah, I mean we've definitely had conversations.

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My dad and I had a little bit more of an intimate connection with music outside of just him being a musician.

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Like you know, I grew up in the church and my dad had a ministry, and so I was doing things with music in his ministry.

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So, there was a lot of conversation happening then, conversation happening around like when I started writing my own stuff and wanting to, um, you know, have my own voice right and sing about uh, whatever I wanted to sing about, write about what I ever wanted about, uh, and so it was.

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There was a lot of um conversation in that sense and and you know, like there would be arguments about you know what I want to listen to versus what he's okay with, or you know stuff like that and oh yeah I can imagine with the ministry, especially when you start listening to um like rock bands, where, from my initial impression because what from what I've seen is like, whenever people from a religious background, when they get exposed to the um other genres of music, it tends to solidify to them Like hmm, it's not a good kind of music, like they automatically put that as a stamp.

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Okay, so it's an interesting thing, because my dad, you know, obviously my parents were split and obviously my parents were split and their perspectives on God and their perspectives on music were slightly different.

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And so my dad's journey with God, and how that affected what he listened to or what he consumed, was different than my mom, and so, depending on what household I was in, I had access to different things, and in the nineties, like it was, there was a lot of amazing music happening.

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Nirvana is a huge part of that time.

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You've got like Tupac, you've got Biggie, and I remember being in sixth grade and, uh, singing gin and juice, which I didn't have any idea what that was or what it meant, you know.

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But like you know, I mean like and, and you know being a kid, there's like you're you're consuming anything you can get your hands on, and and so when I'm living with my mom, that's that's a lot of what's happening.

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I'm getting stuff from her and then and my, you know, like he's feeding me stuff.

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So I like remember hearing Pearl Jam for the first time because of him, you know.

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Jimi Hendrix for the first time because of him, the Beatles, you know, and so I think when my dad there was just a time where he was trying to cut anything out of his life that just didn't feel like it was helpful to his journey with God, and I mean, frankly, I was into that for a moment I was like you know, is there a?

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It was kind of odd like at the time, like people were trying to find like Christian substitutes for things.

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Right.

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So there were like things that were available and I just remember, as I sort of journeyed into that, um how like it was kind of tough because it was like it didn't, like you said, it didn't sound as good.

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There was something about it that felt like not quite X, y, z, but then you have like subcultures, that sort of crop out of that.

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So, um, there was like a, a bunch of artists that were, you know, like they were Christians but they were making music that felt more like secular secular mainstream.

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I, I, I don't really like the whole, uh, secular sacred divide, so maybe like mainstream.

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That's how what I use is mainstream.

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Um, cause I believe everything is sacred, everything is spiritual, no matter, you know, if you're singing about sex or you're singing about God, whatever it is.

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You know like there's a, there's a component to to music that's other Right.

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So, um, but yes, like at the time, it was almost like I was either like sneaking that stuff into the house and they would ask me about it.

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I'm like, no, these guys are Christians.

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And they were like squinting at me, like you know.

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But then, you know, I got older and then I was able to like make decisions where I was.

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Like you know, I want to branch out a little bit more.

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So I think, like you know, toward the end of high school and college, you know it's like I'm starting to absorb things back into my world from, you know, the outside, if you want to put that in quotes, and so, like at the time, you know Radiohead is important, you know Coldplay is very important, like at that point, there's a band called Appleseed Cast that was really important for me, sigur Rós, just to name a few bands sounds like you had a lot of exposure to different all kinds of musical.

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Yeah, man, yeah, and I just want to say that like, uh, um, you know, I, I I think that, uh, I am grateful to have grown up in the church.

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Because of the culture around music, and I think it can be a double-edged sword.

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I think that on some aspects of it it can be limiting.

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If you're talking about like, well, you shouldn't listen to this and you shouldn't listen to that.

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On the other hand, there's something about church music, I think, that trains you, trains us as humans, to like access the the more in life.

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You know that, uh, it's credited to saint augustine.

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He said something like to make music is to pray twice.

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You know that.

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Okay, the melody itself, the music itself is a prayer and the words are also itself is a prayer and the words are also a prayer.

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And I think that you know, if I want to take a like a very abstract thought on what that means.

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I think that music is the, in my opinion, the most powerful art form because it accesses, like the whole human.

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It accesses like the whole human and science tells us this that music and BPMs and stuff like they physiologically sort of tune you up.

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You know like it taps into your mind and your emotions and your heart and all that stuff.

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And so you know, if prayer is very simply like asking for help or letting your longing sort of come to the surface, whatever that longing might be, and your longing makes you more present in the now, right, like where you are, then I think Augustine's right.

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Like where you are, then I think Augustine's right, and I think that that's one of the cool things about music in churches is that that's an on-purpose thing.

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That's like I think healthy churches teach that Like, hey, we're singing these songs and they're making us more present with what's going on and with ourselves and, ultimately, with God.

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If you want to call, yeah, call it, call God that you know, whatever, whatever word you have for like a vehicle.

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It's a vehicle for all all creative people to bridge the gap between the connection of emotional it's whatever they want to hear.

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Like you said, with the emotion especially when we're going something that's very hard to get through Right and when we listen to music, there's something about just listening to something that can be easily relatable yeah, it alleviates all that.

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It's it's.

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It's a release, it's catharsis.

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Yes, yes, I was trying to find a good word for it and you know one of the you know, one of the questions you asked uh is like what's your mission in making art?

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Yeah, I think that, um, you know my mission.

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The reason I want to make, to make art, is to create catharsis for people.

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I want to make things that are like the word is ecstatic.

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I want to make things that connect people to that deeper reality.

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you know, deeper love, deeper hope, deeper peace, hope, deeper peace, and you know, that's not limited to my faith or I'm going to sing about a lot of different things and use a lot of different metaphors and, you know, lyrical content or whatever to describe my version of what that is.

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I happen to believe in a spiritual reality and I'm not trying to preach at people with that or try to convince them of what they need to believe, but I'm, I am, hopeful that what I make would connect people to that deeper place within themselves and the deeper place in the, the, their friendships, and then their love relationships or whatever, and for them to, to, to feel, you know, aligned, you know there's always a voice for everyone.

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Yeah, absolutely it's always, always one voice for everyone.

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Yeah, absolutely Always, always one voice.

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Yeah, so so for me.

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So for me, that's that's, that's the mission is, is that's, that's the gift, that's part of the gift that I get to offer.

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You know the world, and and you know for all the other artists, music makers in the world who have their thing that they bring to the conversation.

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Yeah.

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You know, and I love music because it's a universal language.

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You know, and we all get to add our note to Times.

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Treble Clef.

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You know, we all get to you know if, as a music maker, it's this really unique responsibility.

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I feel it's a responsibility.

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It sounds like it's definitely a unique responsibility.

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I feel it's a responsibility.

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It's definitely a big responsibility.

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It feels like a responsibility.

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It's something I take very seriously, something I want to do well, something I want to do authentically.

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I want to make sure that my offering to the musical landscape is true from me and not me trying to mimic um somebody else, we don't need another michael jackson, we need there's only one queen erwin did I say your last name right when erwin yep, you got it, I have a speech impediment guys hearing loss.

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You're all right, you good, so that is just one question, guys, that is.

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that shows to you how insightful this conversation will be, but there's a lot to add.

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That's a really great compliment.

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I appreciate that no seriously, Because just like what you said about music, when people hear, listen to a conversation between two people.

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Sometimes when we're all caught up in our head about a certain thing, sometimes hearing from a different perspective from two people will always add value to how they can make a decision of how they feel about something, and what you said about you know bridging the gap between music and your musical influences, from your mom and your dad and your uncle, it just seems like it's culminating towards the one person that we see here today, which is quinn, or what I.

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I'm going to call you.

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Quinn from now on.

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No, no, no.

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I mean, I think it's a really, I think it's a really important thing.

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My job as an artist is to take my whole history and pour it into what I'm making.

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You know, like I was having this conversation with someone the other day where it's like you know the words one the other day, where it's like you know the words I love you, right, they seem there's very simple words and we've heard it, heard those words in a thousand songs, a million times, right, but, but it's like, but there's some songs where those three words are used and for some reason it hits us differently.

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And I think, like you know, sometimes in songwriting I like flip-flop between trying to like say something in a completely new way and then just being straightforward and using, in this case, let's just say that like the three words I love you.

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I think what makes those words different and what makes those words like hit like in a different way, is when those words are filled with my history, or those words are filled with your history, right, it's like something.

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That's when the magic happens you know, and when you share your history with someone who has a similar history, there's a resonation.

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No, no, that's what we censor.

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Thanks, we'll just fly off what we censored.

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Thanks, we'll just fly off the handle.

00:21:07.869 --> 00:21:10.564
Yeah, yeah yeah, have you heard of the song?

00:21:10.564 --> 00:21:11.105
Dean Lewis.

00:21:11.105 --> 00:21:12.965
How do I say goodbye?

00:21:13.788 --> 00:21:16.086
I think so, yeah, yeah, yeah, get you.

00:21:17.101 --> 00:21:20.871
I recently lost my grandma this last year.

00:21:21.900 --> 00:21:22.984
Dude, I'm so sorry man.

00:21:22.984 --> 00:21:26.607
I've lost grandparents, grandparents myself.

00:21:26.607 --> 00:21:28.523
It's, it's devastating.

00:21:28.584 --> 00:21:35.346
Especially, I assume you were close to your grandmother she was the one who raised me when my hearing loss, when my parents uh had to.

00:21:35.346 --> 00:21:37.010
You know, work on their career?

00:21:37.010 --> 00:21:43.931
Yeah and I what you said about this simple words and then I think about that song.

00:21:43.931 --> 00:21:46.134
How can I, how do I say goodbye by dean lewis?

00:21:46.134 --> 00:21:50.710
You know, goodbye on its own seems like every you know.

00:21:50.710 --> 00:21:52.863
Every day you walk out the door say, hey, goodbye, guys, I'll see you later.

00:21:53.365 --> 00:22:26.073
But when you have, the history of that's filled with loss yeah and there's a, there's a whole world in our words and, and, yes, and, if you, if you know someone, and, and, and you know their story, their, their context or whatever when they say the words, if you, if you know their world and the world, their world is in the words and it and yeah, yeah, uh, and I hope I know for me as an artist, that that's what I'm hoping to show people with what I write.

00:22:26.073 --> 00:22:26.673
Yeah.

00:22:27.273 --> 00:22:37.441
And I think that, like, like you said, if I'm doing the job well, then all of a sudden there's other people that can resonate with, with, with my story.

00:22:37.441 --> 00:22:42.000
And, and that's when there's a reciprocal thing happening.

00:22:42.182 --> 00:23:02.007
You know, like all of a sudden, like we heal each other in a way right and and that goes in hand with your mission, uh to make people feel seen, seen, heard yes, absolutely but using music as a vehicle to do that, it's just, and that's why it's one of the greatest art form I love what you just said to make people feel seen and heard.

00:23:02.848 --> 00:23:18.048
Yeah, I want, I want people to feel known, I want them to, uh, I think my, as far as like my music, you know, or my art, whatever I'm making, because, honestly, um, I don't know if you know this, but visual art was my first love before music.

00:23:18.048 --> 00:23:26.609
Yeah, so I spent some time like as in, like illustrating and drawing, and then eventually that led into a little bit of right graphic design and and uh.

00:23:27.069 --> 00:23:42.192
So that definitely influences, like what I make with art and and I also want to say, like I love what you said about, um, hearing other people's perspectives, and I would add, especially if they if it's coming from a different medium.

00:23:42.192 --> 00:23:59.327
I love to talk to filmmakers and I love to talk to photographers and I love to talk to, like you know, mixed media artists or whatever, because their processes, listening to the way that they process what they're making.

00:23:59.327 --> 00:24:02.869
It helps me a lot like reframe what I do.

00:24:02.869 --> 00:24:06.046
Sometimes it gives me a different angle, a different tool to try.

00:24:06.046 --> 00:24:07.906
So I think it's really vital.

00:24:07.906 --> 00:24:12.311
So I'm like really grateful for my background and other things too.

00:24:13.660 --> 00:24:33.332
But but I think, as far as my music, you know, I think, like the big word for me is joy is, I think, like like I, I, I think that what, what I intend to do ultimately, is to bring joy and joy to me, is different than happiness.

00:24:33.332 --> 00:24:36.888
Happiness, I think, is a very temporal thing.

00:24:36.888 --> 00:24:41.731
It's very like an itch that you need to scratch.

00:24:41.731 --> 00:24:45.931
Or joy has got like this it's a constant feeling, it's a constant.

00:24:45.931 --> 00:24:49.268
It's a constant feeling, it's a constant, it's a power, it's a it's it's.

00:24:49.268 --> 00:24:50.799
You know, joy and grief are our friends, you know.

00:24:50.799 --> 00:24:59.857
And I say that something that helps me out because, because at my unhealthiest I like to distract myself from the hard feelings.

00:24:59.857 --> 00:25:08.785
Right, I have to like, choose to to dig into the hard stuff, and so I say the depth of my grief is the depth of my joy.

00:25:09.045 --> 00:25:17.307
And so the more that I tend to the hard stuff in my life, it makes my joy more substantial.

00:25:17.307 --> 00:25:25.250
Like it's, the substance of my joy is more powerful, more real, more felt, not only by me but, I think, others too.

00:25:26.681 --> 00:25:27.624
I want to add on to that.

00:25:27.624 --> 00:25:29.450
Come on man, come on Keno.

00:25:29.450 --> 00:25:33.590
I want to add on to that by saying that there's something also beautiful about the music that we share.

00:25:33.590 --> 00:25:40.073
You know, when we talk about the negative stuff, we have to shield two people.

00:25:40.073 --> 00:26:05.568
It's already up and we're already prepared to say the pr version of what we want to say yeah, yeah, but with music when we, when we're on our own, we just let those all all that down and being able to just be yeah everything the grief the sadness and just letting that um meant, uh, blend together with yeah, here yeah, I think absolutely healing right there.

00:26:05.808 --> 00:26:06.411
I think you're right.

00:26:06.411 --> 00:26:25.529
I think like, for a lot of us, the art that we love the most especially music is the music where we felt like the person really lived what they were singing about and they were able to go there.

00:26:25.529 --> 00:26:45.815
They were able to be fully vulnerable in a way that feels, um, like like they really put their heart on the table yeah you know, and and I think that when we find those artists, like you said, it's almost like they they give us the words for our own experiences.

00:26:45.815 --> 00:26:49.800
There we go sorry was that it?

00:26:49.840 --> 00:26:50.604
was that it no?

00:26:50.604 --> 00:26:51.165
No, I'm sorry.

00:26:51.165 --> 00:27:01.003
I love what that it was, because yeah oftentimes we have emotions that we just cannot find the words right, and then when they finally do it, that's like almost a responsibility and a power.

00:27:01.003 --> 00:27:05.752
Yeah, and a gift, yeah and shit.

00:27:06.314 --> 00:27:08.184
I'm sorry I'm going to censor this part.

00:27:09.410 --> 00:27:11.096
I'm into it, keno, I'm into it, yeah.

00:27:15.029 --> 00:27:31.496
And so I think my responsibility, and I think it's every artist's responsibility, is to be able to communicate about the real stuff from their authentic place and from their superpower, if you want to put that in quotes.

00:27:31.700 --> 00:27:42.930
So it's like there's certain things that I am not going to be the best at writing about, I'm just not going to be, and I could try to mimic it all day long, but you wouldn't believe it.

00:27:42.930 --> 00:27:47.642
Could try to mimic it all day long, but you wouldn't believe it.

00:27:47.642 --> 00:28:04.784
So you know, I have to find my lane and and I allow that lane to be full of of me and my, my experience and my um wrestling matches and my thoughts and and stuff, and I think that that's I think people, and I think that that's I think people.

00:28:04.784 --> 00:28:20.673
When I'm doing that as an artist, that's when I think that people are able to identify or see me, yeah, and when you can be seen as an artist, that means that I think that that's when people like, gravitate toward what you're making.

00:28:20.673 --> 00:28:26.416
It's because, all of a sudden, your voice as an artist is the most distinct.

00:28:26.416 --> 00:28:27.577
It's going to be.

00:28:31.019 --> 00:28:33.233
It just punches to the nose of everything that just seems to be generic and doesn't have a meaningful meaning.

00:28:33.148 --> 00:28:33.464
That's right.

00:28:33.464 --> 00:28:38.074
And I think, like it takes a long time as an artist to shed your influences.

00:28:38.074 --> 00:28:44.351
I think, like, like you know the bands or the artists that have influenced me the most, I'm grateful for them.

00:28:44.351 --> 00:28:47.505
You know the bands or the artists that have influenced me the most, I'm grateful for them.

00:28:47.505 --> 00:28:52.815
The whole reason that they became the anchors to me is because I felt like they represented me.

00:28:52.815 --> 00:28:56.405
They were, they were my character in the world.

00:28:56.826 --> 00:29:07.923
I could look at, you know, chris Martin, and be like that guy is me, like like that's, that's you know, like the way he feels about the world, you know, and I, you know.

00:29:07.923 --> 00:29:10.794
I remember where I was when I heard yellow the first time.

00:29:10.794 --> 00:29:14.980
I remember listening to their first record record parachutes.

00:29:14.980 --> 00:29:17.211
I was like I, I, I.

00:29:17.211 --> 00:29:20.883
I was like an out of body experience Cause it was like for the first time.

00:29:20.883 --> 00:29:22.926
It was like I don't know.

00:29:22.926 --> 00:29:32.423
At the time I was like I don't know what this guy is doing, but I feel like he's like the soundtrack in my head.

00:29:32.423 --> 00:29:34.650
It's like all the words he's using, the way those words feel.

00:29:34.650 --> 00:29:35.231
Yeah.

00:29:36.123 --> 00:29:55.433
And I've had similar experiences with other writers and artists where it's like that guy is me or that girl is me, and artists where it's like that guy is me or that girl is me, Like, and I think that the reason why those people were are more recognizable is because they're fully embodied.

00:29:55.433 --> 00:30:09.182
It's like somehow they hit that vein in themselves where, like it's the most them, they could be you tracking with me on that, yeah shedding it's, it's like.

00:30:09.202 --> 00:30:11.406
It's like I've shed all my influences.

00:30:11.406 --> 00:30:17.726
I've shed like who you think I sound like yeah, and I just sound like me now.

00:30:18.146 --> 00:30:47.684
Now I needed to go, I needed to like all the great art, the masters or whatever you know like a lot of people don't know this, picasso was one of the greatest portraiture artists in the world before he birthed what cubism or whatever movement he did, and so he was obviously studying other masters, learning their techniques, became the best at it, and then he broke the rules.

00:30:47.684 --> 00:30:56.618
So I think it's a good metaphor for what it is to find your voice as an artist is that you have to trace the steps.

00:30:56.618 --> 00:31:02.673
You have to live in the house of the artists that you're drawn to or respect.

00:31:02.673 --> 00:31:09.567
You learn how they make things and then you start to like riff off of that in your own way.

00:31:09.567 --> 00:31:20.294
So I fully expect, when people listen to what I make, to identify the camp or the stream that I come from, but eventually what they should hear is me.

00:31:20.294 --> 00:31:24.930
You know, okay, I hope I'm not jumping ahead, by the way.

00:31:24.930 --> 00:31:25.671
No, no, you're good.

00:31:25.671 --> 00:31:28.365
No, no, no, no, no we haven't even gotten past it.

00:31:28.365 --> 00:31:29.808
I remember you've already got, we got.

00:31:29.828 --> 00:31:32.884
No, no, I'm serious, those are great answers, okay, cool.

00:31:32.884 --> 00:31:45.436
And I wanted to add on that, by the way, which is that um, now disclaimer, I'm not, I'm not, um, I'm not as well versed into the religion okay oh, okay, we're gonna talk about that.

00:31:45.436 --> 00:31:46.459
Okay, what I?

00:31:46.459 --> 00:31:46.559
What?

00:31:46.779 --> 00:31:53.421
I heard is that I've always heard that people say that not, not, nothing comes from something whatever.

00:31:53.421 --> 00:31:55.986
That is, yeah, using that as an analogy.

00:31:55.986 --> 00:32:03.628
Uh, we started out as nothing and then, when we have influences, we take something and then, once you shut them, it come.

00:32:03.628 --> 00:32:15.728
What it may look like at the beginning was just a copy version, copycat version of what we love, and then it takes time to really just shed all of them to become something new, and that's hard.

00:32:15.728 --> 00:32:36.127
That's even harder to do, I would imagine as an artist and all different forms of media, it becomes harder to do that when everything else just already a copycat version of one thing or other, and when you finally just like what you said with Coldplay, to finally get to that point of being able to just be you it's.

00:32:37.732 --> 00:32:45.634
Do you feel like you reached up at that point yet, or are you still shedding um your influences in your 10-year journey as an artist?

00:32:45.976 --> 00:33:04.830
I feel like what I'm doing with my band, saint social, is the closest that I've got okay got gotten to it, yeah, and, and I mean um, and that's not to say that things in the past aren't aren't um there either yeah, but I think that, um, right now, I think that my voice sounds the best.

00:33:05.471 --> 00:33:21.507
I feel like my emotion, my emotions and my history are are lining up with what I'm writing, more than ever, um, the way I'm singing it more than ever, and like I really think I'm making something distinct.

00:33:21.507 --> 00:33:31.105
And you know, um, when it comes to, like, my band, saint social, uh, we're about to release our record this year, our debut record.

00:33:31.105 --> 00:33:42.068
Yay, uh, dude, we're, we're unbelievably like chomping at the bit to get this thing out yeah I, I'm really proud of it.

00:33:42.829 --> 00:33:46.895
I think like it's like one of the best first things I've ever made.

00:33:46.895 --> 00:34:14.523
But I would say that I think that the voice of Saint Social if I'm to look at the band as like it's own animal I think that it will be more defined by record too, and the reason why that I think that happens is because, like you know, it's kind of like you have to make something, you have to do something, you have to have like a.

00:34:14.523 --> 00:34:16.293
This is not the record's, not a rough draft.

00:34:16.313 --> 00:34:20.648
So don't don't get me wrong right you have to make a rough draft to like.

00:34:21.409 --> 00:34:28.985
Look at the parts of it that could be better right or look at the parts you want to expound on and and like dial up more.

00:34:28.985 --> 00:34:44.309
And so I think for a lot of bands, and including mine, this, this first record, while it is a very, in my opinion, unique, I feel like it's it's unique in that, um, I feel like, like I said, I'm being the truest version of myself.

00:34:44.309 --> 00:34:47.264
This is the band I've always wanted to be in with the people.

00:34:47.264 --> 00:34:49.710
I want to, you know, be in it with um.

00:34:49.710 --> 00:34:55.449
This is my writing voice, you know doing, I think you know what it needs to do right now.

00:34:55.990 --> 00:35:08.903
But I think that once we have time to live with the record and and see, like, what other people feel about it, we get to like almost become like a third party, like objective, it's almost like.

00:35:08.903 --> 00:35:13.668
It's almost like in the making of the music, it it becomes, it has its own life, you know.

00:35:13.668 --> 00:35:23.525
So we get to see what this, this kid, you know like what we could dial up about this kid, what we could zone in on and be like, ah, I think we need more songs like that.

00:35:23.525 --> 00:35:26.681
Or man, I really want to explore this tone more.

00:35:26.681 --> 00:35:30.088
Or man, I really want to explore this topic more.

00:35:30.088 --> 00:35:35.264
And so I don't know that every artist is like that.

00:35:35.264 --> 00:35:37.407
That's just my thing.

00:35:38.608 --> 00:36:01.284
I want to be able to step back, enjoy what it is Step back, enjoy what it is and then say I think, if I did this and this, next time, this will make the voice of what this is like even better.

00:36:01.284 --> 00:36:09.701
Even album, every song you put out is, in a way, amplifying the parts that you want to improve, so that when you step back, Saint.

00:36:09.701 --> 00:36:10.903
Social on its own.

00:36:10.903 --> 00:36:15.907
It's already becoming closer to the band that you have in mind Out of the gate.

00:36:17.407 --> 00:36:45.817
Well, you know, I've been at this a long time, yeah, you know, and I think that with this band I took all the lessons that I've learned over the course of my career in music and not that I'm skipping steps, but I'm like applying everything I learned to this new thing with some really great friends and people that I have like very deep history with, you know.

00:36:45.817 --> 00:36:47.567
So there's something special about that.

00:36:47.719 --> 00:36:57.050
There's chemistry in this band that comes from like a very deep knowing you know, and with that you will be able to create the songs that actually connect with them.

00:36:57.050 --> 00:37:01.451
Because all the hard work that you put into that yeah, it just.

00:37:01.451 --> 00:37:04.027
Well giving a baby to the world, man.

00:37:04.509 --> 00:37:10.275
Yeah, no, you know, saints Social is not me.

00:37:10.275 --> 00:37:17.030
You know, like the music I'm making with Saints Social is like about what I've been through in the last couple of years.

00:37:17.130 --> 00:37:23.262
So it's personal, it's taking all of my influences, right.

00:37:23.262 --> 00:37:50.702
It's taking all of my influences right, but, like me coming from a certain stream, but it's fully me embodying the music that, my version of it, my riff off of it, right, and it's also, you know, four guys making music that feels like where we live.

00:37:50.702 --> 00:37:56.813
You know, we wanted to make music that, like, filled a gap in our community, uh, a sound that was missing, a sound.

00:37:56.813 --> 00:38:05.630
That was something that we were into and we wanted, um, our take on that sound to have the flavor of the Gulf coast, you know.

00:38:05.630 --> 00:38:16.653
And so, like I was very intentional, you know we were very intentional as we were working on the music to make sure that it did those things.

00:38:16.673 --> 00:38:20.847
So like now that that it's done, it's like we get to step back and be like man.

00:38:20.847 --> 00:38:22.572
That's, it's awesome.

00:38:22.572 --> 00:38:25.550
It does all those things it like down to the the letter man.

00:38:25.550 --> 00:38:25.972
That's, it's awesome.

00:38:25.972 --> 00:38:27.838
It does all those things it like down to the letter man.

00:38:27.838 --> 00:38:31.108
You know like the words I'm using feel like here.

00:38:31.108 --> 00:38:34.177
You know I'm using particular images.

00:38:34.177 --> 00:38:35.740
I'm pulling images from.

00:38:35.740 --> 00:38:45.596
You know that I see in my everyday life, living where I live, and I think that that's another part of what makes it distinct.

00:38:45.596 --> 00:38:55.231
It's not me living you know where I live and trying to write like I live in New York City.

00:38:55.231 --> 00:38:56.934
You understand what I'm saying.

00:38:57.375 --> 00:39:01.159
It's like Trying to pretend that you have these experiences that aren't even in your city.

00:39:01.159 --> 00:39:02.800
Yeah or you haven't lived it.

00:39:02.900 --> 00:39:20.800
You haven't lived a life right right to your music or or just even like um, you know, there's things that a band in new york city can sing about because of the, the people groups that live there, or the, the landscape and the, you know the geography of the place.

00:39:20.800 --> 00:39:35.222
Um, you know, like, maybe you can, you can get away with, uh, being a little bit more abstract or art, like art scene away, or like yeah just even like the sound of the music, like you know what I think of new york.

00:39:35.242 --> 00:39:38.952
I think of like, uh, the strokes, or, you know, right now, bleachers.

00:39:39.132 --> 00:39:42.608
I think of bleachers a lot, um, even though he's from new jersey.

00:39:42.608 --> 00:39:52.637
Uh, you know, I I think of, like the national is one of my favorite bands that I love, that are have a deep connection to new york city.

00:39:52.637 --> 00:40:08.309
There's things that they can sing about and music that they can make that feels very like true to true to that place, built into the fabric of that place, whereas, like you know, the music that we're making is clearly coming from a certain stream of music that we gravitate toward.

00:40:08.349 --> 00:40:12.347
But it's, you know, run through the lens of living here, like, like the killers.

00:40:12.347 --> 00:40:14.380
I love the killers, we all love the killers.

00:40:14.380 --> 00:40:19.411
In our band, um brandon flowers talks about how like the killers is.

00:40:19.411 --> 00:40:25.375
Is bruce springsteen through the the strip in las vegas, you know so.

00:40:25.375 --> 00:40:32.094
When you listen to the killer's music it's like you can hear the obvious like tip of the hat to the those.

00:40:32.094 --> 00:40:34.742
You know, the bosses stream, but it's.

00:40:34.742 --> 00:40:37.387
But it also feels like las vegas.

00:40:37.646 --> 00:41:06.353
It's like they dialed certain things up a little bit more to give it their version, their flavor their riff off of it yeah so, you know, I, I the guys and I wanted to do that in our way and and for it to feel, for our music to feel like, uh, there's connecting points in our music that I think like people will enjoy if they like certain bands, but we wanted to make something that was all us.

00:41:06.353 --> 00:41:10.088
So I think I think that I think we did it.

00:41:10.088 --> 00:41:10.871
I think we did it.

00:41:11.393 --> 00:41:15.603
Time will tell when can people expect that album to drop, though?

00:41:16.226 --> 00:41:17.108
it'll come out in august.

00:41:17.108 --> 00:41:18.411
The full record will come out in august.

00:41:18.411 --> 00:41:33.487
We're going to be releasing a couple singles and an ep all throughout the year and those um the the first, the first single that will come out in uh, march, stay tuned, guys.

00:41:33.788 --> 00:41:35.572
Um, and do you have a discount code?

00:41:35.572 --> 00:41:38.902
Because h&r 30, if you won that, we can get you 30% off.

00:41:38.902 --> 00:41:41.085
Use h&r, hit record 30% up.

00:41:41.085 --> 00:41:43.809
I'm joking, that's cool, man.

00:41:43.849 --> 00:41:50.291
I mean hey, no, no, no that's wow, but yeah um, yeah, so we're gonna be releasing damn pieces and parts of it through the year.

00:41:50.291 --> 00:41:52.159
And um man the other.

00:41:52.219 --> 00:42:05.713
The other thing is like we've been playing these songs now for a couple years yeah so, like a lot of our connection and socials, while being very small, is still still very rooted and grounded in where we are.

00:42:05.713 --> 00:42:17.771
Those are real people that are following us and that we've built up over the course of the past few years playing these songs and beginning to share them from that vantage point too.

00:42:17.771 --> 00:42:29.648
So the hope is that when we finally release this stuff, that people are ready for it, that the people that we're in front of are ready for it and hopefully that spreads around.

00:42:30.900 --> 00:42:34.228
There's more people who hear it, because people love it and want to share it.

00:42:37.001 --> 00:42:41.405
Okay, we're going to take a two minute break and then I'll get you a full glass of water.

00:42:41.405 --> 00:42:42.208
Okay, great.

00:42:42.208 --> 00:42:45.621
Also one more thing, guys.

00:42:45.621 --> 00:42:50.748
If you don't know about St Joshua, they were playing around here, especially the Gulf Coast event.

00:42:50.748 --> 00:42:59.552
I forget the name of that place, the event, it was the Gulf Coast at the stadium church thingy.

00:43:00.119 --> 00:43:01.224
Are you talking about Golf Fest?

00:43:01.485 --> 00:43:02.168
Yes, Golf Fest.

00:43:02.168 --> 00:43:03.601
That's how I.

00:43:03.641 --> 00:43:04.262
That's how we met.

00:43:04.623 --> 00:43:16.233
Yes, that's how I met and between outside of that and also we've had conversations before and I got to say, quinn, I'm really proud of the transformation and the growth that.

00:43:16.233 --> 00:43:16.778
Oh thanks, man.

00:43:16.778 --> 00:43:19.460
Seriously, that's Y'all.

00:43:19.460 --> 00:43:20.344
Don't know what I saw.

00:43:20.344 --> 00:43:22.467
It's fucking awesome.

00:43:22.467 --> 00:43:26.942
No, seriously, I'm really proud of you.

00:43:27.043 --> 00:43:27.563
Thanks, man.

00:43:27.563 --> 00:43:29.389
Thank you, that means a lot to me, man.

00:43:29.389 --> 00:43:32.465
Okay, I think you're the bees knees too.

00:43:32.465 --> 00:43:34.682
I said, I think you're the bees knees too.

00:43:35.103 --> 00:43:37.590
Bees knees yeah, it's a it's a idiom.

00:43:37.699 --> 00:43:39.043
It means I think you're awesome.

00:43:40.487 --> 00:43:55.902
I learned something today Bees, knees, bees, knees, bee's knees and record.

00:43:55.902 --> 00:43:57.943
Okay, welcome back guys.

00:43:57.943 --> 00:43:59.364
We just took a quick break.

00:43:59.364 --> 00:44:01.206
As you can see, he has coffee.

00:44:01.206 --> 00:44:02.326
What kind of coffee do we get?

00:44:02.326 --> 00:44:06.068
I do not know, so your dad said something about.

00:44:06.349 --> 00:44:12.893
I don't think this is hazelnut, so I mean it's good, though we probably packed it all away.

00:44:12.893 --> 00:44:15.996
It's black, it's black coffee, it's good.

00:44:15.996 --> 00:44:16.617
It's good for me.

00:44:16.617 --> 00:44:22.630
Coffee makes him sleep, coffee, at this point, I mean, I think it helps me.

00:44:22.630 --> 00:44:27.202
It doesn't have like a negative effect on me.

00:44:27.222 --> 00:44:32.612
Fair, it's just I'm kind of jealous of people that can drink it and not get sleepy.

00:44:32.612 --> 00:44:34.744
I don't know why that's weird dude.

00:44:35.105 --> 00:44:36.610
I have never heard that in my life.

00:44:36.610 --> 00:44:42.804
It's like I have never heard of anyone drinking coffee and feeling sleepy.

00:44:42.885 --> 00:44:54.349
Really, yes, when there was a drive that I had to, I think it was, I think, all the way to Jacksonville during Christmas, my girlfriend told me to get the Starbucks latte, something latte.

00:44:54.349 --> 00:44:55.592
I finish it.

00:44:55.592 --> 00:44:57.405
I'm already starting to feel woozy.

00:44:57.405 --> 00:45:05.668
Hmm, my body ate meat for caffeine, apparently, apparently, man, okay, okay, diving right back into this video.

00:45:05.668 --> 00:45:06.885
I hope you're enjoying this.

00:45:06.885 --> 00:45:10.009
If you are, don't forget to follow the socials.

00:45:10.009 --> 00:45:12.146
It's literally on the description below.

00:45:12.146 --> 00:45:13.505
And where can people find you?

00:45:15.260 --> 00:45:26.592
Well, you can find my band at at Saint Social Official most places, and you can find me pretty much anywhere at Quinn Irwin Q-U-I-N-N.

00:45:26.592 --> 00:45:28.204
Is it like Facebook?

00:45:28.405 --> 00:45:28.425
X.

00:45:29.121 --> 00:45:30.644
E-R-W-I-N.

00:45:30.706 --> 00:45:31.909
Yeah, on all the places Tumblr.

00:45:33.541 --> 00:45:37.108
You know what man I was on Tumblr once.

00:45:37.108 --> 00:45:43.132
Actually, my website is currently handled by Tumblr.

00:45:43.132 --> 00:45:43.853
What.

00:45:43.853 --> 00:45:49.467
My Quinn Irwin dot com, or whatever it is, is I didn't even on tumblr.

00:45:49.467 --> 00:45:56.590
Yeah, I didn't even notice that, I just click on the link well, I mean, it's not, it's not a tumblr link, it's so like you know it's, but the company owns.

00:45:56.949 --> 00:46:07.434
No, it doesn't know, it hosts it, I guess okay, tumblr still around I did not know that I did not know that okay, tumblr, more proud to you, man.

00:46:08.061 --> 00:46:12.748
Okay, all right, so you ready, let's do it.

00:46:12.748 --> 00:46:17.942
Balancing between a music career and fatherhood is challenging.

00:46:19.646 --> 00:46:58.483
Walk us through your experience as a father, and how has that influenced your music from a creative perspective and how you managed to um, you know balance both of those responsibilities I think the the biggest thing I would say to start talking about that is what was really interesting and and I think this is a pretty common experience for a lot of people okay is is when you get married or you decide to, like you know, partner up with somebody, sometimes people will say like um, oh, your life's gonna change, you know everything's gonna be different now.

00:46:58.483 --> 00:47:07.264
And it sounds like so ominous, like like you know, like you know the, the phrase, like, oh, this is my ball and chain, you know, and.

00:47:07.664 --> 00:47:22.445
And then you like get into the the mix with your significant other in this case my wife and it's like this is awesome and I think it's awesome that it's a lot of hard work right right, but it's awesome because we choose to make it awesome.

00:47:22.967 --> 00:47:23.648
We, we don't.

00:47:23.648 --> 00:47:32.391
We don't allow the the partnership to take away from the life we want to live.

00:47:32.391 --> 00:47:37.300
You know, we don't let the partnership to take away from, like, our individual goals or dreams.

00:47:37.300 --> 00:47:40.431
Right, and you find a way to like, bring those things together.

00:47:40.431 --> 00:47:46.981
I think likewise, when you're about to have kids, people are like, oh man, everything's about to change.

00:47:46.981 --> 00:47:55.007
You know, and the approach that my wife and I took when we had kids was like we don't want to think about it like that.

00:47:55.007 --> 00:48:10.623
We want our kids to be part of the adventure, we want our kids to be part of the good things in life, and just because they're around, it doesn't need to take away from our individual dreams and goals.

00:48:10.623 --> 00:48:27.054
And so how does everybody win and what I mean by that is like not only me but my wife and our kids how do we blend all of our you know aspirations and the stuff we're good at into the fabric of family?

00:48:27.054 --> 00:48:27.496
Right.

00:48:27.655 --> 00:48:27.856
Right.

00:48:27.856 --> 00:48:41.907
So, that being said, as an artist, you know, my kids are not a hindrance to my art, they're not an obstacle, they're not in opposition to what I'm making.

00:48:41.907 --> 00:48:48.112
They're not, you know, like, and very frankly, my kids have opinions about what I make.

00:48:48.112 --> 00:48:50.768
I show them my songs.

00:48:50.768 --> 00:48:57.813
Like there's a song that I'm not done with that they keep begging me to finish.

00:48:57.813 --> 00:49:00.246
You know, it's not out yet.

00:49:00.246 --> 00:49:03.208
And it probably won't be out for a while.

00:49:03.208 --> 00:49:03.710
Right.

00:49:05.302 --> 00:49:08.684
But they're like mad at me because they love it so much.

00:49:08.684 --> 00:49:10.427
They're like dad, is this on spotify?

00:49:10.427 --> 00:49:20.193
Yet you know like they're talking to me about this all the time um, my all my kids so far are somehow like musically inclined.

00:49:20.193 --> 00:49:26.211
It hasn't like materialized into sort of like a discipline to to learn how to play an instrument.

00:49:26.211 --> 00:49:26.693
Yes.

00:49:26.860 --> 00:49:36.012
But they're constantly singing their own songs and writing their own stuff and then I've tried to take the time to record with them.

00:49:36.012 --> 00:49:45.190
I don't do it nearly as much as I would like to or should, but sometimes I'll be like all right, let's work on your song.

00:49:45.190 --> 00:49:53.713
You know, like my daughter, you know like there have been days where, like I'd like get on to her about something.

00:49:53.713 --> 00:49:57.867
Yeah, and like I was right, I mean I needed to do that as a dad.

00:49:57.867 --> 00:49:59.601
She's like okay, dad.

00:50:00.384 --> 00:50:24.251
And she would like go in her room, close the the door, and she'd be like, and I was feeling sad, you know like she starts like singing hers, like her feelings out, man, you know so, it's like you know so, so, like you know, in that way, there's this, this really cool, like, like a reciprocal, synergistic thing.

00:50:24.452 --> 00:50:30.528
You know, like I love helping them discover new music and I love like talking to them about it.

00:50:30.528 --> 00:50:42.351
They have a playlist, each of them have a playlist, and I'll like listen to something and like, dad, will you put that on my playlist, you know, and so I'll go and I'll feed it to them that way.

00:50:42.351 --> 00:50:57.202
And you know, my dad was a little tough on me as far as, like me wanting to learn something, um, and he eventually came around, so I want to give him a little credit.

00:50:57.202 --> 00:51:02.237
It wasn't all bad, but like I, I really I don't.

00:51:02.237 --> 00:51:09.190
If my kids are interested in something, that I want to feed that interest and I want to like make it easy for them to have access.

00:51:09.190 --> 00:51:22.405
But, uh, but I also know like that the reason why I'm here today as a musician is because I was like, fiercely curious and driven to like, you know, make my materialize, my ideas.

00:51:22.405 --> 00:51:30.648
You know, know, like, um, when I was 15, uh, I would like, uh, hang out.

00:51:30.648 --> 00:51:33.132
I I one part of my chores was I washed dishes.

00:51:33.132 --> 00:51:33.661
Yeah.

00:51:34.021 --> 00:51:35.969
So I do the same washing dishes.

00:51:35.969 --> 00:52:02.110
Well, and I don't know about you, but I feel like, um, doing menial tasks is actually like a huge part of my creative process, because because I'm doing something that lets my brain like, imagine or go free, so I get a lot of great ideas doing that especially when you're always in a spot where you try to think of a good idea and nothing comes out.

00:52:02.190 --> 00:52:06.030
it just, it just so happens to me the minute we walk away and do something else.

00:52:06.030 --> 00:52:11.452
Dude, I didn't realize how powerful washing dishes are Imagine that.

00:52:11.452 --> 00:52:13.586
Oh my gosh, that's a great idea.

00:52:15.425 --> 00:52:16.829
To me it's like a spiritual practice.

00:52:16.829 --> 00:52:19.086
I make it a practice of presence.

00:52:19.086 --> 00:52:21.672
I'm here, I'm washing the dishes.

00:52:21.672 --> 00:52:34.688
I'm being present in this moment as I'm scrubbing or sliding it in the dishwasher, but I'm also being present with my mind and letting my mind have the freedom to like work on things yeah so 15.

00:52:34.969 --> 00:52:53.634
You know, I'm like, yeah, I'm doing this chore that I was forced to do or whatever, yeah, but it actually, oddly enough, like generated ideas and and so I had a lot of friends who were starting to get in bands yeah and frequented like a coffee shop in in the community I grew up in at that time.

00:52:54.442 --> 00:53:01.143
So I saw my friends like getting guitars and stuff and I started getting a little jealous because it was like they're all getting in bands like I want to do that.

00:53:01.143 --> 00:53:13.057
Well, just so happened, my dad was cleaning out the attic and he had this old, like beat up guitar that he was gonna throw away and I stole it.

00:53:13.057 --> 00:53:15.802
Oh no, I brought it back to my.

00:53:15.802 --> 00:53:30.670
I brought it back to my room and had this mel bay songbook and I had like these you know charts for some guy named bob dylan, these weirdos named Simon and Garfunkel yeah, shout out, because Bob Dylan and Simon and Garfunkel are amazing.

00:53:32.003 --> 00:53:34.490
But I didn't have a reference point for that.

00:53:34.490 --> 00:53:52.869
But I was so determined that I was playing on an out-of-tune guitar and I just kept going and and then eventually my dad and my stepmom they bought me my first guitar and so that.

00:53:52.869 --> 00:54:12.391
So then all of a sudden I was able to like take that and hang out with my friends and learning chords from them and and the cool thing was, like none of my friends and I and or me like none of us, uh, wanted to learn everybody else's songs, we wanted to write our own stuff, right.

00:54:12.391 --> 00:54:20.759
So there was already, like very, very early on, like a writing culture and um, and so that I mean that that's how so.

00:54:20.838 --> 00:54:24.855
So anyway, that being said, you know, kudos to my dad.

00:54:24.855 --> 00:54:28.164
You know sometimes he made it hard to get to the coffee shop, you know.

00:54:28.164 --> 00:54:35.692
But but I got there and and that space sort of helped me as a kid grow into what I am now.

00:54:35.692 --> 00:55:01.773
So as a dad I want to feel that interest in my kids if they're interested, and then, and then I mean, mean, dude, like your whole life is fodder for what you're making yeah so you know, the, the experiences that I share with them, or the things about them that spark my imagination, inevitably find, find the way into my songs somehow.

00:55:02.373 --> 00:55:04.864
Yes, sir keno all right.

00:55:05.206 --> 00:55:20.240
Going back to the early conversation we had, uh, where you mentioned about how the influences that you gather from your mom and your dad and your uncle, um, how do you see that when, when it comes to your uh children, um, with being influenced by other music?

00:55:20.240 --> 00:55:20.981
What?

00:55:20.981 --> 00:55:22.724
Are your take, what's your take on that?

00:55:22.724 --> 00:55:29.572
Because you know, music nowadays are no, the source material is just not nice to listen to.

00:55:29.572 --> 00:55:34.684
So as a father and especially the fact that when they have interest in music?

00:55:35.106 --> 00:55:35.766
how do you see?

00:55:35.766 --> 00:55:37.411
Uh, how do you want to go about that?

00:55:37.811 --> 00:55:46.512
so you know, uh, I think that as a parent, my my job Does that make sense.

00:55:46.512 --> 00:55:47.333
Yeah, I know what you're asking.

00:55:47.353 --> 00:56:13.771
Yeah, I get it, you know, I think, like older generations of parents, like they, when you're born, like you know, I think, parents in the past, you know, I think at first you know first the kid existed for the parent and then the parent would do their best to mold the kid into another version of themselves.

00:56:13.771 --> 00:56:15.875
Okay, that make sense Tracking so far.

00:56:15.875 --> 00:56:20.210
But I heard recently I can't remember who to give credit to about this.

00:56:20.210 --> 00:56:23.728
I can't remember if it was a psychologist or teacher or whatever.

00:56:23.728 --> 00:56:29.842
This I can't remember psychologist or teacher or whatever.

00:56:29.862 --> 00:56:31.324
But, um, this person said when your kids are born, they are who they are.

00:56:31.324 --> 00:56:32.146
You get what you get.

00:56:32.146 --> 00:56:35.293
Your job is not to shape them into yourself.

00:56:35.293 --> 00:56:45.307
Your job is to cultivate the space for them to become the best version of who they are, what they are, and so bars.

00:56:45.307 --> 00:57:12.581
So so what I would say is, like, when it comes to musical taste and stuff like that, um, I spend a lot of time like getting to know my kids and knowing what they can handle, right, okay, and I don't judge other parents for like what they let their kids listen to or whether you know, do or do not, but, like I, I feel like there's certain things that my kids are just aren't ready for, not because, uh, I have an aversion to it.

00:57:12.581 --> 00:57:18.802
As much as I know my kids, I know where they're kind of like at in their yeah journey of growing up right so.

00:57:20.306 --> 00:57:27.101
So that's kind of the thing is, like I'm the one introducing them to music, I'm seeing, like, what their tastes are and I'm paying attention to what they're into.

00:57:27.101 --> 00:57:27.644
Yeah.

00:57:27.726 --> 00:57:38.708
No, like I can kind of tell you, you know what my daughter is into and what my son is into, the the older ones, because they they're the ones who have more opinions than the younger ones.

00:57:38.708 --> 00:57:55.192
So like, for example, my daughter all of a sudden loves country, so, but I've introduced her to specific artists and I'd even say that, like, out of those artists, I've only introduced her to specific songs.

00:57:55.192 --> 00:57:55.632
Right.

00:57:55.900 --> 00:58:00.032
Because, like she's not, I don't think she's ready for all of the songs, you know.

00:58:00.032 --> 00:58:05.469
Then, like she's also, she loves Paramore, and I love Paramore, oh my God, best man ever.

00:58:05.469 --> 00:58:19.581
And I love paramore, oh my god, best man ever freaking love, paramore, love that yeah you know, but like I don't know that she's ready for all the paramore songs, so I kind of like field, like which ones I think she's she's ready for why not let them find their own way?

00:58:19.802 --> 00:58:24.496
like, yes, you can guide them, but there's also something about, uh, like when, how?

00:58:24.496 --> 00:58:26.280
My parents, but everything that they don't?

00:58:26.280 --> 00:58:46.030
They just said their motto is this we'll guide you as best we can right, but how you make your decision, and whatever you do will let you learn from your own experience and how you interpret that so yeah and that um it's kind of the same thing, I mean my daughter's 11 right and, and my next oldest is eight, he'll turn nine in the summer.

00:58:46.699 --> 00:59:03.628
And so it's like to me, it's like a slow release oh catharsis, it's a slow release of them slowly carrying more weight of the responsibility of their own experiences right, okay.

00:59:03.648 --> 00:59:12.815
of the responsibility of their own experiences, right, okay, so like that's why, like you know what you know, in a couple years my daughter will listen to all the record, the Paramore records, you know.

00:59:12.815 --> 00:59:13.996
However, she wants to listen to them.

00:59:13.996 --> 00:59:34.275
She'll probably listen to more of Kacey Musgraves stuff, because she's really into Kacey Musgraves, and I'm sure, like our conversations will also change, you know about that stuff, stuff, because I want to be as a parent, I want to be involved in what she thinks and what she's feeling and how she processes it.

00:59:34.275 --> 00:59:43.552
But there are certain conversations that my wife and I we sense that she's not ready for and we're not ready for.

00:59:43.552 --> 01:00:07.971
And so you know, we have the, you know I think the responsibility is her parents to like guide that process and and so now again, I'm talking about my kid, you know so like, but if I'm in a situation with, and it's like, it's like another parent, you know, like there's, you know, parents that probably listen, you know, let their kids listen to all kinds of explicit stuff.

01:00:08.039 --> 01:00:09.144
Well, that's not for me to judge.

01:00:09.144 --> 01:00:10.666
You know what are their lives like.

01:00:10.666 --> 01:00:12.608
You know what, what do they see every day?

01:00:12.608 --> 01:00:25.157
You know like I, you know I, I do and have taught kids that you know come from a rougher you know rougher Upbringing Upper upbringing rougher you know rougher Upbringing.

01:00:25.157 --> 01:00:31.610
Upbringing so, like their filters and their understanding, is different than what my kids are experiencing on the daily.

01:00:31.610 --> 01:00:38.170
So that might mean, you know, the music that they consume is going to be different for them.

01:00:38.170 --> 01:00:42.490
You know they have more of a grid for things, right.

01:00:44.541 --> 01:00:51.768
And the music probably reflects on yeah, so so yeah, so you know I'm I'm not trying to over protect my kid.

01:00:51.768 --> 01:01:19.251
I want like I don't, I don't want my kids to be like shell shocked or or whatever, but I but I do want to like be really present with them and and what their daily reality is and what the soundtrack of that reality is, and so slowly want to reveal those things or slowly want to give them the chance to get their legs under them with what music talks about.

01:01:19.251 --> 01:01:21.646
Also, my daughter loves Spice Girls.

01:01:21.646 --> 01:01:28.586
Right, yeah, she has no idea what Ziggy Zagat is, but it's a cool word.

01:01:28.586 --> 01:01:31.385
That's the first time I've heard it too.

01:01:31.385 --> 01:01:37.463
I'm just saying Shout out to everybody who loves Spice Girls and know what that word means.

01:01:37.463 --> 01:01:43.545
It's not time for us to talk about that.

01:01:43.545 --> 01:01:47.329
She's getting closer to the age where we need to talk to her about that.

01:01:48.119 --> 01:01:56.394
It seems to me that the reason why there are certain things that haven't been talked about is that they're not at the place at their current age.

01:01:56.394 --> 01:02:17.420
It sounds like there's a time and place where you know that when they reach that, they'll have a much better understanding of that specific yeah, though I think I think the the object is like them having the maturity to be able to handle the weight of what they're listening to you still don't have that in the beginning.

01:02:17.621 --> 01:02:24.168
Yeah, so I agree, I love you know like I like, I love uh kendrick Lamar's To Pimp a Butterfly.

01:02:24.168 --> 01:02:40.733
I think he's a genius and I think that record it's genius, but I'm old enough to sit and listen to it and understand something about what he's talking about.

01:02:40.733 --> 01:02:46.367
I haven't lived his experience and there's certain aspects of it that I I can't empathize with.

01:02:46.367 --> 01:02:49.351
But, um, but I can.

01:02:49.351 --> 01:02:58.166
I can listen to what he's communicating and I can um feel, you know uh, what he.

01:02:58.166 --> 01:03:10.606
I can um absorb, um what he wants us to feel about his experience living his life you know what I'm saying yeah like, but like and and for him.

01:03:10.666 --> 01:03:19.900
you know, that record is all about like, uh, becoming famous and and also like, from what I understand, the the title, to pimp the butterflies.

01:03:19.900 --> 01:03:34.068
How are you going to sell something that's already free, right Again, brilliant, and so like the racial ramifications of you know him being at the level he is doing what he's doing.

01:03:34.068 --> 01:04:06.913
That's what I take from it, so, but that's something that I can digest at my age and my you know my place in life and I'm sure there's a lot of people that come from compton or you know where he's from that are going to be able to listen, yeah, from lots of different age ranges that have his experience right where they're, like, ready for it, um, but I don't think that everybody's ready for that, you know, um, I, I, my kids, aren't ready to to that yet, but they will be.

01:04:07.940 --> 01:04:11.469
And I think when they reach that, they'll be able to understand the value of listening to it.

01:04:11.490 --> 01:04:26.653
Yeah, I want my kids to be at some point ready to listen and read all kinds of stuff, man, and watch all kinds of things and have incredible, have like incredible conversations and like pick things apart.

01:04:26.693 --> 01:04:28.536
You know I don't I'm not a prude, you know I'm not.

01:04:28.536 --> 01:04:45.833
I'm not gonna like, um, protect them to the point that they're not like they don't understand that there's a whole wild world out here, right, but I at least want to give them a good head start to to slowly integrate.

01:04:45.833 --> 01:04:53.070
You know, in some ways, in some ways in my life, I feel like I was a little bit of a late bloomer.

01:04:53.070 --> 01:04:56.847
There's things that I had to like catch up on.

01:04:56.847 --> 01:05:11.789
You know, cause there was like a a gap in my life where, like things were so delayed from like what I was able to consume, just because my parents were fielding things more, had stricter rules, which that's their choice.

01:05:11.789 --> 01:05:16.708
I get it, um, but it did, and in some ways that was great for me.

01:05:16.708 --> 01:05:23.829
Some ways that was great for me because there were some also some years, uh, where I learned things way too fast and that might not.

01:05:24.210 --> 01:05:25.172
I wasn't ready for it.

01:05:25.172 --> 01:05:28.005
I don't think, and you know it just is what it is.

01:05:28.005 --> 01:05:29.771
So I don't know.

01:05:29.771 --> 01:05:34.092
I think I want to define like the balance in my life with my kids.

01:05:34.092 --> 01:05:40.432
So, as far as being an artist, you know, like it's.

01:05:40.432 --> 01:05:59.485
It can be a tension between some things that I want to write about versus, like you know, do I need to filter for my kids sake, because once you make something as an artist, it's out there.

01:05:59.795 --> 01:06:20.637
Your kids are going to find it one day Right, and so there's sort of like a sense of responsibility, of like, do I need to make something unfiltered because I'm just need to do it and maybe I don't necessarily share that with my kids yet, or do I make things in an authentic way that brings in everybody, including my kids?

01:06:20.637 --> 01:06:23.485
Yeah they can experience it and take it in do you understand what I'm?

01:06:23.485 --> 01:06:24.599
Do you understand what I'm saying there?

01:06:24.880 --> 01:06:25.884
yeah so they're.

01:06:25.884 --> 01:06:47.684
I think, like every artist approaches that differently, every artist decides how they're going to make something, whether that's like completely unfiltered about their lives, or whether they, um, whether they keep their families or loved ones in in mind and try to compassionately, graciously, create things.

01:06:47.684 --> 01:06:50.067
I think there's a to honor, to honor.

01:06:50.067 --> 01:06:51.494
You know the relationship.

01:06:52.135 --> 01:06:56.318
I think there's also another way, which is that you can still put that out there.

01:06:56.318 --> 01:06:58.521
I think there's also another way, which is that you can still put that out there.

01:06:58.521 --> 01:07:10.030
That seems to be more not as much as you would like to share, but there's still a value in being able to tell them from behind the scenes, to share to them, because you have that one part that not everyone will get, which is that you share?

01:07:10.030 --> 01:07:12.331
The story behind the song with your kids and your family.

01:07:12.532 --> 01:08:05.119
Yeah, once they fully grasp that, the whole view that they have on that song that you just put out right, it comes completely different well, you know, and I think like it's possible, and I just had this thought that that, um, you know, like I don't have, I personally don't have any anything explicit out there yeah but that's not to say I won't one day, you know, but just like I curate or slowly share other people, revealing more of my heartache to them and as I'm teaching them that, hey, that you're not responsible for this, but this is my journey and this is what you can learn from it, right?

01:08:05.320 --> 01:08:15.983
So I think, like it, it works with the way I create and it works with what I show them of what I'm making.

01:08:15.983 --> 01:08:18.889
You know, I I don't know, that's just.

01:08:18.889 --> 01:08:22.444
That's just how it works for me and my family.

01:08:22.765 --> 01:09:01.484
You know, like other people probably have a different way of looking at it, I just had a thought I think what you're doing at one one of these days, when you know when we're not around, but your kids are going to find your music, I think one thing you have as an advantage as a parent and as a musician in my perspective, because I don't have parenting experience, but the songs that you put out, especially the ones that you know that's going to help them one day, it's like another extension of being a parent, where if they one day, I'm sure I would imagine there have been cases where they will have an argument with you and it's hard to express it.

01:09:01.524 --> 01:09:17.926
But when they calm down and, going back to what we said earlier, when we find the music and they want to hear your dad, their dad's voice, and it's talking about what they're going through- yeah they finally opened up themselves to listen that song it becomes another instant connection.

01:09:17.926 --> 01:09:22.641
Yeah, it's like they're connecting to you through your songs, especially when we're not around.

01:09:22.641 --> 01:09:23.243
Does that make sense?

01:09:23.583 --> 01:09:25.948
Oh man, yeah, I love it's like a gift right there.

01:09:25.948 --> 01:09:26.469
It really is.

01:09:26.469 --> 01:09:34.184
Yeah, no, I think that's maybe part of you know.

01:09:34.184 --> 01:09:38.390
I think there's like the on purpose part of why I write the way I write.

01:09:38.390 --> 01:09:38.729
Yeah.

01:09:38.954 --> 01:09:54.703
But then there's like the part of it that's like spiritual maybe, like it's prophetic, like in a sense of like what you're saying is like, when I'm gone, my music will still be here, yes, singing about my view of the world.

01:09:54.703 --> 01:10:15.587
Um, the, the words that I'm trying to convey, about like taking the hard things and like the paradox of of finding light in the dark places, right, like, of course, I'd want that to speak to my kids because inevitably they're going to go through.

01:10:15.587 --> 01:10:33.707
I want that to speak to my kids because inevitably they're going to go through hard times and I would want them to know that their dad went through hard times and that I had to sing my way out of the trench and maybe my words will be there for them in that way.

01:10:34.576 --> 01:10:36.341
It'll be like a marching hymn.

01:10:36.823 --> 01:10:43.345
Yeah, dude, Like, what an incredible legacy right, Like that.

01:10:43.345 --> 01:10:52.645
Of course I'm not just writing for me, Of course I'm writing something that hopefully my kids will be proud of.

01:10:52.645 --> 01:10:54.649
You know you know they might.

01:10:54.649 --> 01:10:56.442
They might eventually like you know I.

01:10:56.442 --> 01:10:57.615
You know you know they might.

01:10:57.615 --> 01:10:58.979
They might eventually like you know I.

01:10:58.998 --> 01:11:07.003
You know, if you like uh, listen to, like uh, other musicians and artists talk about their kids and about like, whether their kids like like their music or whatever.

01:11:07.003 --> 01:11:13.381
And you know, like I'm never gonna like twist my kids arms to like what I do, to like what I make.

01:11:13.381 --> 01:11:18.670
You know, Um, I feel really lucky right now that they're into it.

01:11:18.670 --> 01:11:25.775
You know, and I don't take that lightly, I don't, I'm like man, I'm trying to soak this up as much as I can.

01:11:26.096 --> 01:11:45.604
You know, like you know, I think part also part of like uh, what I'm doing in terms of like my goals and my successes is is I'm modeling something for them, that that it is possible to have a dream and to find success with that dream.

01:11:45.604 --> 01:12:25.262
And they're watching me, and my wife too and her ways like choose a life and work, work hard for it and and gain the, the fruits of our labor for it right and um, before before my kids, uh, I, I I dove into music because I was teaching I was a you know, high school english teacher and it was like I, I was teaching my students one day and at the time these are kids that were in FEMA trailers still the what FEMA trailers, because we all lived in Biloxi, Mississippi.

01:12:25.262 --> 01:12:25.966
Oh, okay.

01:12:26.135 --> 01:12:32.421
So it was like Hurricane, katrina, okay, so the whole world around us was shattered to hell, you know.

01:12:32.421 --> 01:12:41.823
And so here I am at the front of class, um, teaching ninth graders, and I'm just like, hey, listen, you know, you want to make your world a better place.

01:12:41.823 --> 01:12:44.300
You got to do the things that make you come alive.

01:12:44.300 --> 01:12:46.288
You got to do the things that you're passionate about.

01:12:46.288 --> 01:12:52.198
And as I'm saying that, it's like I'm like prophesying to myself.

01:12:52.198 --> 01:13:01.225
I'm like I'm like speaking to me, you know, and and for me, that that internal dialogue, you know it goes to God or whatever.

01:13:01.225 --> 01:13:05.247
And I'm just like hearing, you're right.

01:13:05.247 --> 01:13:07.329
And I'm like, what are you talking about?

01:13:07.329 --> 01:13:10.212
You know like I'm here teaching, this is, this is my calling, right.

01:13:10.212 --> 01:13:16.880
And it's like man, you go to bed thinking about music.

01:13:16.880 --> 01:13:17.542
You wake up thinking about music.

01:13:17.542 --> 01:13:18.445
Go, show them how to do it.

01:13:18.445 --> 01:13:20.877
It's your turn.

01:13:20.877 --> 01:13:22.640
And, dude, that was kind of like the green light for me.

01:13:22.640 --> 01:13:34.654
It was like I love these kids and I want to show them what that looks like and I need to do it for me too.

01:13:36.694 --> 01:13:38.559
And so, from that point on, I was in and out of the classroom while pursuing music.

01:13:38.559 --> 01:13:47.715
And then, you know, I, I was able to, I was able to get some things done, you know, and, and some things happened for me and, um, it's humbling and beautiful.

01:13:47.715 --> 01:13:51.105
And so it started with my, my students.

01:13:51.105 --> 01:14:07.582
I wanted to show them like, hey, you can do this, do whatever, whatever you can imagine, you put in this sweat, you, you lean into your, your talents and your gifts and you, you know, uh, lean into these things that make you come alive, that you're passionate about.

01:14:07.582 --> 01:14:16.840
So so, of course, of course, I want to show my kids, my own kids, how to do that, and yeah and and um and I want them whatever it is like.

01:14:16.899 --> 01:14:20.082
it doesn't have to be music, it's like whatever they love to do.

01:14:20.082 --> 01:14:24.225
I want to be their biggest cheerleader, along with my wife.

01:14:24.225 --> 01:14:27.506
We want to be the ones who are like go get it.

01:14:27.506 --> 01:14:29.228
Like go get it, man.

01:14:29.228 --> 01:14:44.095
You know you're awesome, like you know high value in our family on cheering each other on and supporting each other and and um, and so that's reciprocal right yeah that they do the same with with us, and I'm, and I'm, an adult, you know.

01:14:44.577 --> 01:14:51.457
So, like you know, my dream one day is to be on a big stage and and look over and you see them and see them.

01:14:51.497 --> 01:14:53.880
It's like you know, wink you know whatever, wink, you know whatever.

01:14:53.939 --> 01:15:04.523
Like hey, it's, it's almost like, uh, as cool as it is for me to get to do it as much as I want to do it, it's also like me saying you got, you can do this.

01:15:04.523 --> 01:15:05.746
You got it.

01:15:05.746 --> 01:15:09.746
Whatever it is, you know, um, I need to succeed.

01:15:09.746 --> 01:15:13.238
So they succeed, you know, you know.

01:15:13.238 --> 01:15:13.738
So it.

01:15:13.738 --> 01:15:20.685
That's kind of part of I think, for me, being a dad, being an artist, is that it's not.

01:15:20.685 --> 01:15:28.375
I don't think for me it doesn't feel like undue pressure or it doesn't feel like a heavy responsibility.

01:15:28.375 --> 01:15:35.518
Like I got it, I got to make it happen so that you know, I take care of everybody, you know it's not no, it's like.

01:15:35.798 --> 01:15:43.239
It's like man, I want to do this because, because, like, I want to show them that they can and and do, I want them to be proud of me.

01:15:43.239 --> 01:15:46.297
Yeah, man, of course I want them to, you know.

01:15:46.297 --> 01:16:03.720
But, like, the other thing is, I don't want to be an amazing artist and a shitty dad, you know, like I want to be a very present dad.

01:16:03.720 --> 01:16:16.123
I want to be like a really loving, aware, like into my kids kind of dad and I think that you know I'm doing the best I can, you know, to be to, to be that for them.

01:16:16.123 --> 01:16:29.498
I'm I'm imperfect at it, but I think, like me investing in their interests and us talking about things, you know me asking them questions about my songs, like I asked them what they think.

01:16:29.498 --> 01:16:30.020
Yeah.

01:16:30.282 --> 01:16:32.337
Like, so they and they, they're savage man.

01:16:32.337 --> 01:16:33.600
They will tell me, you know.

01:16:33.600 --> 01:16:42.185
But like you know, like we'll bounce from that and then like we'll go to Voltron, you know, like right now we are binging Voltron on Netflix.

01:16:42.185 --> 01:16:44.280
Okay, so that's like a thing that we do.

01:16:46.135 --> 01:16:54.144
I got to say it's the thing that you're doing that's really inspiring and I'm sure it will be very inspiring to other people to hear.

01:16:54.144 --> 01:16:56.447
Is that what I think you?

01:16:56.447 --> 01:16:57.908
The songs that you create for them.

01:16:57.908 --> 01:16:59.090
You know, okay, Blending it.

01:16:59.090 --> 01:17:01.520
You're a teacher, you want to educate.

01:17:01.520 --> 01:17:09.045
Now you have a song that you want to create that will almost give you the exact same feeling when you listen to yellow by Copeland for the first time.

01:17:09.694 --> 01:17:22.034
And then now you have kids and now you have this desire for the legacy that you want to leave behind Sure, and now you have this desire for the legacy that you want to leave behind Sure for everyone else, but especially for your kids.

01:17:22.034 --> 01:17:33.063
Yeah, I think you're going to find your own yellow song and then when they listen to it, they'll feel like they can carry that along with them no matter what stage they are in yeah, because you know what they're listening to?

01:17:33.063 --> 01:17:37.322
They're listening to their dad's voice guiding them along the hard times.

01:17:37.755 --> 01:17:38.760
And one more thing.

01:17:39.998 --> 01:17:43.222
The lessons that you leave behind in how you make the songs for them to listen to.

01:17:43.222 --> 01:17:49.520
I don't know, because I'm not a parent, nor will I ever become one.

01:17:49.520 --> 01:17:55.787
Not sure Debatable, but I would like to think it's the same.

01:17:55.787 --> 01:17:58.524
Okay, it's the same way that my grandmother left me a planner.

01:17:58.524 --> 01:18:07.595
She knows that I'm not as well-versed in religion, but she did leave me a letter, or not letter?

01:18:07.595 --> 01:18:12.363
It's a book of all the prayers that are related to you.

01:18:12.382 --> 01:18:23.488
know, you have pride, you have difficulty sliding go, death loss and so on and I think it will be the same way for you with the albums, when they find your songs, when they listen to it.

01:18:23.488 --> 01:18:32.199
Yeah, that's I think, no matter where you are yeah don't know that they have a cheerleader right in their ears just telling them what to do, man.

01:18:32.300 --> 01:18:56.046
That's a that's a really beautiful thought and I hope so, and I hope that, as a parent, that I've loved them well, so that when they hear my songs that they remember me loving them well in everyday life, so that those songs carry more weight.

01:18:56.046 --> 01:19:07.442
I would hate it if, like and man, I'm going to make mistakes as parents we do.

01:19:07.442 --> 01:19:15.216
I don't want to think about the day my kids have to come to me and be like Dad.

01:19:15.216 --> 01:19:18.345
You know that one time that you did X, y, z, it really hurt.

01:19:18.425 --> 01:19:29.877
I mean, you almost kind of like I have to be prepared for that you know, and and I hope that when that day comes that I'll be able to to say I'm sorry, and and we can grow.

01:19:29.877 --> 01:19:32.264
We can grow toward each other in that moment, you know.

01:19:32.264 --> 01:19:40.981
But I hope that that my songs carry more weight for them because of the, of the way I love them in the, in the, in the day-to-day.

01:19:40.981 --> 01:19:46.501
So, again, imperfect with that, but I'm, you know, I'm working on that.

01:19:46.501 --> 01:19:55.845
But, yes, man, what a beautiful thought to like be the soundtrack for their lives oh, my god, that's a great summarization of ever doing this.

01:20:02.774 --> 01:20:05.179
Guys, parents, mothers, fathers be the soundtrack of your kids' lives.

01:20:05.179 --> 01:20:14.756
I'm just grateful for my parents because, like you said, they are the soundtrack of my life and I don't want it to end.

01:20:14.756 --> 01:20:21.886
I don't want that soundtrack to end, man, and when you listen to Dean Lewis that song.

01:20:21.907 --> 01:20:23.088
How Do I Say Goodbye?

01:20:23.088 --> 01:20:42.539
Yeah, I felt like when my grandma because she was a really huge part of my life and taking care of my hearing loss knowing that soundtrack is quiet, quiet, it's unsettling.

01:20:42.539 --> 01:20:50.779
It's not the kind of um silence that I'm okay with, and once they're gone it's like you really want to hear that you really want to hear that play again you know it's yeah.

01:20:50.859 --> 01:20:55.524
Well, first of all, man, um, I'm so sorry, like that.

01:20:55.524 --> 01:21:05.970
That's uh losing a grandparent, um, I empathize with what you're saying because I've uh my, so my grandpa um the one that I was closest to.

01:21:06.551 --> 01:21:14.335
He actually died on my birthday and I'm so sorry yeah thank you, uh, and that was that was in 2020, so I was during quarantine.

01:21:14.335 --> 01:21:15.140
That was.

01:21:15.140 --> 01:21:15.765
It was really.

01:21:15.765 --> 01:21:17.055
It was a really heavy moment.

01:21:19.417 --> 01:22:09.735
But I think that for me because I and this is just my perspective on life Because I believe in a spiritual reality, a spiritual dynamic, because I really care about, like, being connected to that and stuff, I'm grateful that somehow it puts me in touch with my grandparents are still touching my life, like I'm seeing aspects of me that come from him and when I notice those things, it's like he's with me, you know, and, uh, my hope for you would be that somehow, um, you would see that she's very much with you.

01:22:09.735 --> 01:22:23.242
You know, and and and, just in ways that that might be unexpected and maybe, maybe, potentially, ways that, like you, maybe some to become aware, you know, awakened to it.

01:22:23.242 --> 01:22:33.069
I also I'm not a superstitious person, but, like people talk about how, like, when Cardinals show up, what Cardinals?

01:22:33.069 --> 01:22:46.548
Like the bird, the, the Cardinal Card, cardinal, oh cart, like a, like a red car, you know red bird yeah that, um, you know, they symbolize uh, past loved ones coming to to visit you.

01:22:47.435 --> 01:23:12.497
so what's really cool is, uh, um, my office space is like right on my backyard and I have this really massive, like um sliding door, so it's like it's like a big window um to the backyard and and I'll sit and drink my coffee and, you know, meditate or whatever, just prepare for the day.

01:23:12.497 --> 01:23:26.476
And, um, I have Cardinals that visit often and so when I see them, I it's like, oh, that's, that's my grandpa, my grandma Sally, who's also a significant relationship to me.

01:23:26.476 --> 01:23:35.418
She, she, she's my dad's mom and she very, very important part of my life and and very encouraging part of my life.

01:23:35.418 --> 01:23:42.149
And then, um, you know, I I had a friend that passed on um also 2020, it was really tough.

01:23:42.149 --> 01:23:44.399
So I think of them.

01:23:44.399 --> 01:23:47.945
You know, when I see those those red birds pop in, I'm like, oh, can you?

01:23:48.186 --> 01:23:49.128
okay, I have a request.

01:23:49.128 --> 01:23:51.717
Can you make a song with the title red Cardinals I?

01:23:51.717 --> 01:24:01.309
I you know when you said that I now want to get a tattoo of it, because I only get tattoos when meaning, and just, I did not know about that.

01:24:01.309 --> 01:24:02.270
Yeah, yeah, Really.

01:24:02.270 --> 01:24:03.470
Look it up, man, Look it up.

01:24:07.753 --> 01:24:12.019
Yeah, I love the idea of Cardinals and it's funny that you brought that up.

01:24:12.019 --> 01:24:14.804
I can't say that I'm currently working on a song that's called that, but.

01:24:14.963 --> 01:24:23.951
but I've definitely been been like trying to squeeze that idea in, like the Cardinal and somehow.

01:24:23.951 --> 01:24:28.162
So that's something I've actually been thinking a lot about, just cause I just think it's really cool.

01:24:28.162 --> 01:24:28.502
I think it's.

01:24:28.502 --> 01:24:56.399
I think nature you know some some people say that nature is the first gospel and what they mean is that nature is the first good news, the first thing that we can visibly see, like the way that things grow or change, cycles, right, Like it communicates the nature of life or love or hope, or whatever.

01:24:56.399 --> 01:24:59.881
It communicates the nature of life or love or hope or whatever you know.

01:24:59.881 --> 01:25:12.332
So I think in recent years I've been trying to pay more attention to that and be more present with nature, and so, for whatever reason, I have a lot of critters that are drawn to my yard man.

01:25:12.332 --> 01:25:22.222
So when they come, I just try to be present and just be like what's what's being communicated to me today?

01:25:22.222 --> 01:25:22.944
You know, what is it that I need to?

01:25:22.944 --> 01:25:26.037
How do I need to be encouraged or how do I need to take care of this?

01:25:26.037 --> 01:25:33.542
How do I need to be present in this moment when you know when the birds or the foxes or the I had a turkey come in my yard once.

01:25:33.663 --> 01:25:35.426
I'm dead serious, bro, Like this.

01:25:35.426 --> 01:25:37.310
Turkey just showed up For Thanksgiving.

01:25:37.310 --> 01:25:41.005
No, but it was pecking on that window.

01:25:41.005 --> 01:25:42.420
It was just like it was wild.

01:25:42.420 --> 01:25:44.139
Yeah, so yeah, I've had, you know.

01:25:44.139 --> 01:25:44.801
I don't know.

01:25:45.435 --> 01:25:50.240
Sometimes you know butterflies Like I think that a butterfly is a significant.

01:25:50.240 --> 01:25:53.608
You know message carrier Right.

01:25:53.608 --> 01:25:54.128
You know that.

01:25:54.295 --> 01:25:55.356
Especially in the butterfly effect.

01:25:55.356 --> 01:25:56.720
Yeah, message carrier right, especially in the butterfly effect.

01:25:56.720 --> 01:26:00.046
Yeah, we have the grief that we experience and that will create a butterfly effect.

01:26:00.768 --> 01:26:06.760
Yeah, grief comes in waves, dude.

01:26:06.760 --> 01:26:08.702
I would assume this is probably true for you.

01:26:08.702 --> 01:26:09.403
Tell me if I'm wrong.

01:26:09.403 --> 01:26:20.423
But there are days where I'm just driving out and about and all of a sudden I'll think of my grandma Sally, and something she said to me and I'll be crying all over again.

01:26:20.423 --> 01:26:24.279
And she's been gone now, for it'll be 10 years this year, I think.

01:26:24.279 --> 01:26:25.181
It never goes away.

01:26:25.783 --> 01:26:40.801
It never goes away, yeah, so, so you know, I've got a picture of my grandpa, you know, in my house and I'll look at it and be like you know in my house and I'll look at it and be like what's going on, johnny?

01:26:40.801 --> 01:26:41.243
You know, miss you man.

01:26:41.243 --> 01:26:49.627
You know, sometimes you just gotta release that feeling or that thought that, uh, what andrew garfield was on stephen colbert and he he said andrew gov, that's spider-man.

01:26:50.210 --> 01:27:10.622
Yeah, he was on, okay stephen colbert, and stephen colbert was was talking to him about, like Andrew Garfield recently lost his mom, and he said something like I hope I'm quoting this right grief is love leaving the body, you know, unexpressed love, you know.

01:27:11.364 --> 01:27:12.046
I'll add on to that.

01:27:12.046 --> 01:27:21.154
There's a book I read about grief on to that.

01:27:21.175 --> 01:27:21.957
There's a book I read about grief.

01:27:21.976 --> 01:27:22.198
Um, it's a.

01:27:22.198 --> 01:27:43.725
The hardest form of love is grief, because it's not only when you lose something you really fully embrace the love that you have shared with that person and when it's hard to let go, that's the purest love, because you it has been so ingrained part of your life and knowing that it's not around anymore, that's the hardest love to carry, oh man yeah you just don't want to.

01:27:44.608 --> 01:28:01.239
It's like you want to unburden yourself yeah you don't want to deal with it anymore, but I, at the same time, it's always a good thing to have, yeah, to remind you that life can be so fragile and how we, how they left us behind, and how we learn from them.

01:28:01.239 --> 01:28:11.836
It's also another shape form, shape of it's another form of love that we can do in their legacy yeah, yeah whatever your grandma sally did for you, you can.

01:28:11.836 --> 01:28:13.559
You can express that to other people.

01:28:13.559 --> 01:28:15.360
Yeah, man and I, and I do.

01:28:15.921 --> 01:28:21.250
And I think that's like the lovely part of her life and my relationship, my dynamic with her.

01:28:21.250 --> 01:28:21.671
Yeah.

01:28:21.994 --> 01:28:34.016
Is that she gave me so much to pass on, and I guess that's why I was talking to you earlier about, like you know, yes, physically she's gone, but she is ever with me, like I feel her.

01:28:34.016 --> 01:28:40.747
You know, in my everyday life, on some level, you know I, we, we cross paths.

01:28:40.747 --> 01:28:44.561
You know, um, frequently enough.

01:28:44.561 --> 01:28:54.731
You know where I'm reminded of her or I think of what she would do or what she would say or or what, um, how she felt.

01:28:54.731 --> 01:29:03.502
You know, like that's another thing is just like there was a warmth to my grandma, and sometimes I'm reminded of that warmth.

01:29:03.502 --> 01:29:07.385
You know what it felt like to be around her.

01:29:10.059 --> 01:29:16.225
Don't get emotional Grandparents man Like if you have a good relationship with your grandparents, that's a tough one.

01:29:21.114 --> 01:29:22.658
It's really tough.

01:29:22.658 --> 01:29:23.198
It's a tough loss, loss.

01:29:23.198 --> 01:29:24.121
I just didn't like how I left mine.

01:29:24.140 --> 01:29:25.243
Yeah, I had the last conversation.

01:29:25.243 --> 01:29:35.720
It was about, um, she was talking about god and for some reason I just decided to challenge it and that was the last conversation I have with my grandma.

01:29:35.720 --> 01:30:00.747
And then, when you know, things got with her health becoming worse and you know, my mom flew out to philippines and, um, you know to be there, and there was a day I got a text in the morning and my brother was like she passed away and knowing that's how I left it.

01:30:00.747 --> 01:30:03.417
Bro, that shit kills me, oh man.

01:30:03.778 --> 01:30:20.364
And I well, it sounds like you're well, first of all, maybe just because it sounds like your grandma was good that she she let you communicate what you wanted to say, but maybe it felt like you were being aggressive toward her.

01:30:20.364 --> 01:30:21.460
Is that kind of what you're saying?

01:30:21.460 --> 01:30:25.481
I don't want to put words in your mouth.

01:30:25.895 --> 01:30:26.957
No, I'm just more of like.

01:30:26.957 --> 01:30:29.905
I've always tried to understand.

01:30:29.905 --> 01:30:35.067
Because, everybody, almost everybody's like, so ingrained in religion.

01:30:35.067 --> 01:30:35.717
And.

01:30:35.717 --> 01:30:38.217
I just so happen to be the one that wants to challenge it more.

01:30:38.217 --> 01:30:40.503
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I got you, but you know what I wish?

01:30:40.503 --> 01:30:47.435
I wish I said uh, I wish I could have said you know what, grandma, you and I may have our differences, but that's okay.

01:30:47.734 --> 01:31:02.422
But I hope one day that you will be the one to prove me wrong I hope you were the one that was right, but I didn't, and I don't know how to carry that and it's really, really difficult, wow.

01:31:02.422 --> 01:31:07.779
So, yeah, I'm going to try.

01:31:07.779 --> 01:31:15.506
I may not be able to fix that, but what I can try to do is embody the values that she imbued in me.

01:31:15.506 --> 01:31:30.724
Yeah, to try, because that mistake feels like the biggest one, you know, like when our grandparents, um have taken, they have made a lot of sacrifices for our upbringing, but then all of that seems to be hard.

01:31:30.724 --> 01:31:40.900
It's so hard to see when one tiny mistake, when one tiny mistake, I could have gotten, I could have flown over there, but I was too, um, scared.

01:31:40.900 --> 01:31:43.506
Yeah, I was thinking about me, I was not thinking about her.

01:31:43.786 --> 01:31:47.676
Yeah, man, yeah, that's heavy.

01:31:47.676 --> 01:31:48.738
I don't.

01:31:48.778 --> 01:32:34.960
I don't know if this is encouraging, um, but I had a conversation with my mom once where, like, I was expressing that, like I felt sad because I lived at a distance from my grandparents and I was worried that I hadn't gone back enough, you know, to see them, especially toward the end, with my grandpa in particular, I'm really lucky that, um, that my last conversation with him was a good one, and I'm grateful just grateful that my aunt was, was at his nursing home and was able to like get him on the phone with me, because very shortly after that, everything shut down, cause that was in 2020.

01:32:34.960 --> 01:32:40.438
Right, but my mom said something to me.

01:32:40.438 --> 01:32:53.344
She said, oh, quinn, she said you know that all your grandparents wanted for you was for you to live like, to like do everything you want to do.

01:32:53.344 --> 01:33:11.840
And she's like I wouldn't be too hard on yourself about how much you saw them toward the end, because they were seeing you live your life and grow and go and do the things that you want to do.

01:33:11.840 --> 01:33:15.782
And that was comforting to me at the time.

01:33:16.155 --> 01:33:20.318
It was like what I can do for them is live, is like.

01:33:20.318 --> 01:33:28.782
Is is like live to the fullest, whatever that means for me specifically, like like get the most out of this experience of being human.

01:33:28.782 --> 01:33:32.988
And so, in a way um.

01:33:32.988 --> 01:33:36.262
I honor them with that.

01:33:36.262 --> 01:33:39.402
God damn it.

01:33:46.988 --> 01:33:50.395
Oh man, I can't wait for my first red cardinal.

01:33:50.854 --> 01:33:58.029
I hope you see one soon and when you do, I hope you stop and just maybe have a convo with your grandma, maybe.

01:33:58.029 --> 01:34:01.942
Maybe you say what you just told me, cause it was really beautiful.

01:34:01.942 --> 01:34:05.015
God damn it.

01:34:05.796 --> 01:34:06.878
This is supposed to be.

01:34:06.878 --> 01:34:08.783
Oh man.

01:34:08.783 --> 01:34:11.622
Okay, we're going to do you.

01:34:11.622 --> 01:34:19.203
I love, I really love to answer this again, cause it just I don't even need to ask a lot of this, it just made it easy to go through.

01:34:24.065 --> 01:34:25.307
Kino, you're a good dude man.

01:34:26.984 --> 01:34:27.609
You're a good dude.

01:34:27.609 --> 01:34:29.702
Just one more question before we go to the other ones.

01:34:29.702 --> 01:34:34.782
Yeah, how do you forgive yourself For that mistake?

01:34:34.782 --> 01:34:40.085
Because to author Everyone's like, oh, no, it's okay.

01:34:40.085 --> 01:34:41.065
How do you forgive yourself for that mistake?

01:34:41.065 --> 01:34:42.328
Oh, because to others everyone's like, oh no, it's okay.

01:34:42.328 --> 01:34:45.314
Yeah, they minimize it, but you're not the one that did it.

01:34:47.640 --> 01:35:02.367
Yeah, you know, man, I think there's certain things that certain certain decisions that we make that we just have to carry a certain way that feel heavier than others.

01:35:02.367 --> 01:35:25.319
But I believe that very rarely does one decision define my life forever Right, like I believe my life is defined by both sides of the dash, you know, like, like you know, the tombstone dash, what I hope my life in its fullness communic.

01:35:25.319 --> 01:35:49.127
Like that, you know, doing the work is like processing the grief of that decision right and allowing for the time, the proper amount of time, to process the grief of that decision.

01:35:49.127 --> 01:35:56.966
But if you know that you messed up, you know then it's your responsibility to live differently.

01:35:56.966 --> 01:36:12.628
You know from that point and then, as the grief comes up in you, you know, through, like taking inventory within yourself, maybe seeing a counselor, you know huge advocate for that.

01:36:14.510 --> 01:36:15.470
I'm just muting.

01:36:16.032 --> 01:36:21.215
Yeah for that.

01:36:21.215 --> 01:36:41.979
Um, I'm just muting, yeah, uh, whatever you know, whatever, whatever you need to do to process how the impact of it, how it made you feel right, like you know, do it and then, but just remember that your life is not defined by that decision, I think, unless you allow it to define you I just feel it's like it is because I'm still learning, you're still learning, you're still processing it.

01:36:41.979 --> 01:36:43.944
Whoa.

01:36:44.365 --> 01:36:45.007
But you know what man?

01:36:45.007 --> 01:36:47.103
I'd like to be at a place where I already learned it.

01:36:47.536 --> 01:36:48.560
Right right, right right.

01:36:48.560 --> 01:36:52.220
Isn't that what we all wish, you know?

01:36:52.220 --> 01:37:20.074
But like, maybe it's a ground zero, it's a new ground zero, it's a new square one, you know, but like, maybe it's a ground zero, it's a new ground zero, it's a new, it's a new, uh, um, square one, you know, and you just, you gotta, you gotta riff off of that, I think um, I'll make another version of a soundtrack that she would soundtrack of my life, that this time she would want me to have man, I, I, I have to believe that that, like you know, it's, it's.

01:37:20.136 --> 01:37:26.217
I guess it's that spiritual side of me that says, uh, and this isn't disregarding that you have a spiritual side, so I don't know, like that.

01:37:26.217 --> 01:37:30.627
But, um, I mean, I just think our grandparents know.

01:37:30.627 --> 01:37:35.050
I think, like the older people, the wiser people in our lives know, like maybe you were going through a keynote and she knew it.

01:37:35.050 --> 01:37:35.390
You know lives.

01:37:35.390 --> 01:37:37.698
Know like maybe you were going through a keynote and she knew it.

01:37:37.819 --> 01:38:04.686
You know it's not like you were challenging her to I I don't know your motivations so I don't want to I don't even know anymore because yeah, maybe not but you know, maybe you know, you're just being young and dumb you know, like, and you said something shitty and and like, but like, she's not holding it against you because of that, you know, she, I think, like the wiser, older, wiser people in our lives, hopefully, I believe they know that those kinds of things don't define us.

01:38:04.686 --> 01:38:06.435
That's why our grandparents love us so fiercely.

01:38:06.435 --> 01:38:18.527
If you have good ones, right, they, they believe in us, man, like they don't allow these, these ruts that we get ourselves into to find who they believe us to be.

01:38:18.527 --> 01:38:20.762
That's why they're there the way they are, you know.

01:38:20.762 --> 01:38:25.378
And so, man, I have to believe, I choose to believe.

01:38:25.378 --> 01:38:30.262
Your grandma knows, she knew, you know, and she's just.

01:38:31.386 --> 01:38:33.520
It was just a day, just a bad day for Keno.

01:38:33.520 --> 01:38:45.689
You know what, man, she shared those values with you to the end, right?

01:38:45.689 --> 01:38:58.469
Because she believed in your better nature, believed in the best of who you could be, so, even when you were poking holes in it, maybe that says something, I don't know.

01:38:58.469 --> 01:39:02.706
Man, I don't want to project or try to define it for you.

01:39:02.706 --> 01:39:07.106
I mean, I don't even want to give you platitudes about it, right?

01:39:07.106 --> 01:39:21.643
I think I try to listen more, grieve more with people, be sad, feel that sadness more than give them an antidote.

01:39:21.643 --> 01:39:23.247
You know what I'm saying.

01:39:23.694 --> 01:39:53.556
The book did mention about how platitudes will never connect, because it's only in that moment of grief that our world is ripped apart and nothing makes sense anymore but the only way we process through that is to literally go through with it and once as every and every step that we take towards finding our way back to the world, that it is at that present moment, um, we start to understand why people are there.

01:39:53.556 --> 01:39:54.518
They'll help you.

01:39:54.578 --> 01:40:21.291
The platitudes become more meaningful, but it's just when it happens, none of that shit matters yeah, I have a counselor yeah and I also have a spiritual director yeah and a lot of my conversations with my spiritual director specifically, it's it's more about like just being, like living through the dark night of the soul, or whatever you want to call it.

01:40:21.395 --> 01:40:35.301
Like you have, you just have to live it until you're out of it you know, and I think that what's helpful is like she's allowing she in our conversation, she's feeling it with me In our conversations.

01:40:35.301 --> 01:40:46.091
She's feeling it with me, she's allowing me to express it and she's just making space for the emotion of it to be there and to hold it.

01:40:46.091 --> 01:40:59.979
We talk about holding the space with people and I think that's the powerful thing about relationships and walking with people through hard stuff.

01:40:59.979 --> 01:41:09.127
You know, I hope and and you know to to kind of circle back to it, like with my music, I think, like I hope, it's a form of holding the space with people.

01:41:10.350 --> 01:41:15.483
You know what I'm saying, yeah, because we don't like circle it back to the other conversation.

01:41:15.483 --> 01:41:21.320
Yeah, we will not show ourselves until we're alone with the music and whatever music we listen to.

01:41:21.320 --> 01:41:22.104
That's when.

01:41:22.104 --> 01:41:27.945
That's the, that's the smallest moment that no one in the entire world will ever see, because, yeah, we hold that.

01:41:27.945 --> 01:41:28.993
That's only for ourselves.

01:41:28.993 --> 01:41:34.984
Thank you, thank you, god damn it.

01:41:34.984 --> 01:41:47.706
Okay, alright, guys, as you heard, I hope, um, for the people out there, grief is not something that should be I I also hate one more comment about this.

01:41:48.426 --> 01:42:14.542
I hate how current society sees it, as it's a thing that no one wants to talk about like a yeah, like it's, it's it's, it's a thing that they make it out to be so uncomfortable when, really, we just don't know how to understand, um, and how to empathize, because once something is uncomfortable, the first thing we want to do is run away, and that's why we get hit with the platitudes and hopes that it'll take it away.

01:42:14.542 --> 01:42:23.365
But you can't yeah, man, and I mean music it helps, is the one place where you don't hear any of that that's true.

01:42:23.426 --> 01:42:27.721
That's a good point where, where the emotions are expressed perpetually, right?

01:42:27.721 --> 01:42:33.302
Yeah, um, as far as our society, I think, like you said, we we want to slap a band-aid on it.

01:42:33.302 --> 01:42:36.101
We want it to exactly and sooner, and like.

01:42:36.101 --> 01:42:38.578
Grief doesn't work like that exactly.

01:42:38.717 --> 01:43:14.322
It doesn't work like jesus people can understand that the world will be a little bit easier to bear through we we uh have, we're we're learning, hopefully we're learning how to carry each other's burdens, you know, and it takes patience, it takes a deep patience to allow people in your life to process through their grief, to process through their losses, and I think maybe some people haven't experienced those significant losses so they don't have the grid for how it feels.

01:43:14.322 --> 01:43:23.654
Empathy, I think empathy is a really important thing and empathy comes from experience, lived experience.

01:43:23.654 --> 01:43:39.231
And so you know, for people that have had like deep losses, you know we learned to lean into each other because, like, there's like a language, there's like a shorthand that we know that we can feel it with each other.

01:43:39.231 --> 01:43:42.641
Right, it's almost like an unspoken law.

01:43:42.702 --> 01:43:43.484
Yeah, yeah.

01:43:46.557 --> 01:44:18.908
And I think when stuff happens to you that's like really big and devastating, traumatic or whatever, or whatever you know, I think for some of us, we learn how to channel that into being more present and available and helpful to others, you know, and not to like if you know, some of us can't access that like I don't think that that's shameful or wrong.

01:44:18.908 --> 01:44:23.425
Um, I think it all just depends on what we've experienced, right or and how we deal with it right.

01:44:23.425 --> 01:44:34.100
Some of us, for some reason, um, learn how to take the trump, the traumatic things, and use it to, like, bring healing to other people who have experienced other things.

01:44:34.100 --> 01:44:37.206
Like, like, there's like a, a thing called a wounded healer.

01:44:37.768 --> 01:44:51.761
You know that your, your woundedness turns it paradoxically, turns into what you use to the medicine, the medicine, yeah, and so uh the world is already full enough full of hurt, why why should we keep adding to it?

01:44:51.761 --> 01:44:55.563
And I think music's a great place to start with that.

01:44:56.164 --> 01:45:00.738
Yeah, man it, and I think music's a great place to start with that.

01:45:00.759 --> 01:45:02.163
uh, yeah man, I'm I dude, I'm an advocate for that.

01:45:02.163 --> 01:45:03.989
All right, that's enough for the section of grief.

01:45:03.989 --> 01:45:08.862
Uh, we're gonna be diving into the last section, uh, which is about business, business.

01:45:08.862 --> 01:45:14.399
Thank you again for opening your heart yeah, man, yeah, so business music licensing.

01:45:14.399 --> 01:45:32.661
I remember we had a conversation yes, uh music licensing and I gotta say when I looked on your website I was really impressed with the accolades that you have let me read it out loud for the people that want to know, oh man so okay you made a mark with the music licensing, with your work appearing on platforms like mtv, netflix and even at the super bowl.

01:45:33.261 --> 01:45:36.605
What so with that?

01:45:36.605 --> 01:45:38.448
It's like music licensee.

01:45:38.448 --> 01:46:17.827
Can you walk us through, uh, the challenges, the strategies and, um, some of the tips that most people would not would love would love to know when it comes to putting music out there, because some people think music is you only make music based off of the shows, but it's like, music licensing is not often the the avenue that most artists would consider when, when it comes to making money that's a good okay so, um, okay so with licensing, um, my, my story kind of starts at an interesting moment um in music, but also in film okay because, because that's essentially what licensing is.

01:46:17.854 --> 01:46:20.283
It's like you're pairing a song with a visual.

01:46:20.283 --> 01:46:20.725
Right.

01:46:20.725 --> 01:46:32.769
And so when I came into this aspect of making music, there was a huge shift in cameras and film.

01:46:32.769 --> 01:46:41.342
So we went from wedding video with video, like with, like a vhs you know camcorder camcorder right.

01:46:41.342 --> 01:46:55.764
So, like these epic, like canon, you know, like you know this better than me yeah, you know um and so like.

01:46:55.944 --> 01:47:07.420
All of same time, uh, licensing um in tv shows and film became a new way to like break artists.

01:47:07.420 --> 01:47:12.855
So like, way back in the day, there's this band called the fray um and they're still.

01:47:12.855 --> 01:47:23.902
They're still around, but their big break came from Grey's Anatomy, so their song appeared in an episode of Grey's Anatomy and everybody lost their minds.

01:47:23.902 --> 01:47:24.784
Who is this band?

01:47:26.038 --> 01:48:02.890
this is when Napster and the whole streaming thing was like the music industry is floundering, trying to figure out how to make money, and so pairing a band with a TV show and a visual all of a sudden became a new way to, like, feed the public, new artists yeah so, so, but, but, um, in that instance, like, you've got music supervisors who are directly connected to large productions, well, if you're a baby band, how are you going to get connected to those companies and get yourself those opportunities?

01:48:03.395 --> 01:48:17.028
Simultaneously, you've got these wedding filmmakers making these like elevated cinema style, you know, wedding films and they want music, great music, to pair with those visuals.

01:48:17.028 --> 01:48:23.244
But the music they would use are like major label artists that they can't afford licenses for.

01:48:23.244 --> 01:48:33.628
So, um, so this company in texas called music bed, um, uh, still doing, still doing great things.

01:48:33.628 --> 01:48:45.399
Now they you know the two guys that started that company they were wedding filmmakers, or at least connected to that culture, and they were like what if we created something?

01:48:45.399 --> 01:48:50.076
Like maybe there's like bands or music, that's already quality, but they're independent artists?

01:48:50.076 --> 01:48:54.524
Like what if we like paired up, you know, made a platform for?

01:48:54.543 --> 01:48:57.850
their music and for these filmmakers to to interface.

01:48:57.850 --> 01:49:12.515
And so, you know, I'm in nashville at the time newly in nashville, and and I'm kind of figuring out the game and and so I wasn't like going at it from the vantage point of like I'm gonna write music that's licensable.

01:49:12.515 --> 01:49:14.980
You know, yeah, I was just like okay's this.

01:49:14.980 --> 01:49:19.109
I know that licensing is an avenue to introduce your music to people.

01:49:19.109 --> 01:49:23.185
And my first, you know my oldest band, afterlight Parade.

01:49:23.185 --> 01:49:32.908
You know, we just finished making the record and it just so happened that the music I was making was cinematic.

01:49:32.908 --> 01:49:38.364
It wasn't like I'm writing it from this place yeah you know I was.

01:49:38.987 --> 01:49:54.744
So, anyway, I was, uh, in a batch of artists with music bed in 2011 and, like, my first license at the time was like 24 okay, three years later I was making like a third, fourth year teacher salary.

01:49:54.744 --> 01:49:56.067
That's how I would have equated it.

01:49:56.287 --> 01:50:15.291
Wow, and and because that, that market just grew yeah, so now you have micro licensing, what they call micro licensing, which is, like you know, low budget film, wedding film, not probably media, regional stuff and then you've got the bigger stuff, and so now there's there.

01:50:15.291 --> 01:50:23.469
At the time there was like a lot of conversation about like how are the macro licensing and the micro licensing going to like work together?

01:50:23.469 --> 01:50:32.189
Because there was a huge debate over like is micro licensing like affecting the value of the macro stuff?

01:50:32.189 --> 01:50:37.555
Because why would I pay 30 grand for a song if I could pay yeah, a thousand dollars for it.

01:50:37.574 --> 01:50:42.025
It might just eat up the profits like it'll eat into it it could it could.

01:50:42.065 --> 01:50:44.139
But I think, like, what eventually happened is like well, what if?

01:50:44.139 --> 01:50:47.537
What if the price point is based on the spot, the kind of spot you know?

01:50:47.537 --> 01:50:49.100
Okay, and something like that.

01:50:49.100 --> 01:51:27.092
So anyway, I'm just right place, right time, you know that's in 2011, you mentioned uh, it started then, that's when, oh so 2011, yeah yeah, so I I'm like growing with music bed, as it's growing okay, and this new market is growing and so, uh, which leads to other relationships, like in other companies yeah and then eventually I got uh, got the reach out from the label, the, the publishing house that hosts my music now Hive Music, and I was at a point where I'd kind of hit a ceiling with the way I was doing things

01:51:27.113 --> 01:51:34.221
before, and so I needed to change things right, to do a little change up.

01:51:34.221 --> 01:51:47.399
So, and things have evolved with licensing since then, right, so there's more of uh equanimity and uh understanding in, in both micro and macro, I think, at least from my experience.

01:51:47.399 --> 01:51:57.606
But, um, so then from that point, um, I was having to like reverse engineer how do my songs work, why do people like them in their visuals?

01:51:57.606 --> 01:52:19.555
And then, like, I'm like learning from the publishing houses that I'm connected to and they're giving me the information about, like what makes songs work in film and what music supervisors are actually looking for when they look at a song for that medium.

01:52:19.555 --> 01:52:23.403
And so it was a like reverse engineering, learning.

01:52:23.403 --> 01:52:30.297
It also like growing and learning from the my anr, anr guy and producers I'm working with.

01:52:30.537 --> 01:53:16.969
And what I would say about licensing is I think that it's a very particular skill because and what's really cool is in for the projects that I'm writing for, to me they're not like licensing projects, right, they're like you know, like Bloom in the Bliss is like my alter ego, my persona, and Afterlight Parade my oldest band band got picked up by Hive as well, so that so, and it is like TV is the new radio.

01:53:16.969 --> 01:53:25.921
It's like I'm writing for a format and I'm writing authentically for that format with these particular ways of writing.

01:53:25.921 --> 01:53:34.323
And you know, and I hope that people enjoy the music when they see it in a, in a TV show or a commercial.

01:53:35.456 --> 01:53:37.020
And it's the same thing with techiktok too.

01:53:37.020 --> 01:53:38.936
I don't like with the format film.

01:53:39.016 --> 01:54:04.326
Everybody's just y'all want me to shoot vertical videos from now on so, but I think, like you know, like I think, I think it's um, you know, we have to evolve with the times and and then, as far as, like, seeing licensing is not only an avenue to make money, but seeing licensing as a as a way to to create a particular kind of art, yeah to learn a very, very specific skill.

01:54:04.846 --> 01:54:06.389
You know, like what I.

01:54:06.389 --> 01:54:28.009
What I find valuable about um writing for a format is that um it forces me to take phrases like I love you and write it a different way, write it a new way.

01:54:28.876 --> 01:54:32.907
It forces me to make sure that my melodies are even better.

01:54:32.907 --> 01:54:37.301
I would say that I feel take I.

01:54:37.301 --> 01:54:40.735
I feel like I take um less risks.

01:54:40.735 --> 01:54:47.293
But uh, maybe maybe a better way to say is I take different risks, not less risk.

01:54:47.293 --> 01:54:50.136
I take different risks, calculated, calculated risks.

01:54:50.136 --> 01:55:08.869
And in it, it you know writing for like in a, in a for a, like for the TV, the visual format, it it teaches the economy of words, you know, and it teaches the economy of like structure, like from a musical standpoint.

01:55:08.869 --> 01:55:22.859
So, yeah, I think like I'm grateful for the skills and the tools that growing in licensing has given me.

01:55:22.859 --> 01:55:34.555
And so, uh, like, like, maybe, like picasso, maybe I can hope that, um, that I'm learning the rules, and then in other things, yeah, but but then, likewise, there's kind of like a, a circle back.

01:55:34.555 --> 01:55:38.444
It's like, well, what if in the licensing, what if I can break some rules too?

01:55:38.444 --> 01:55:38.966
Yeah.

01:55:40.136 --> 01:55:55.792
Because part of the rub with that is like you're not only hoping that, like people who are watching those shows will like the songs, but you're giving the music supervisors something that you hope that they'll like.

01:55:55.792 --> 01:55:56.252
Yeah.

01:55:56.252 --> 01:56:04.841
That that will tickle their ears, you know, in a way, that that they'll become fans of of what we're putting in front of them.

01:56:04.841 --> 01:56:10.104
So so in that sense, like my, that's kind of how those projects sort of function.

01:56:11.277 --> 01:56:17.904
What are some of the strategies that you employ to ensure that a song, whatever you create onto whatever distributing platform?

01:56:17.904 --> 01:56:26.185
What are some of the strategies that you employ to make sure that it's successful as it can be, Especially getting picked up by a show like Grey's Anatomy and all that?

01:56:26.274 --> 01:56:35.684
Well, luckily I'm not that third party involved in that, but the way that the label works, as far as I understand it and the publishing houses.

01:56:35.684 --> 01:56:38.423
It's like a library.

01:56:38.423 --> 01:56:47.845
It's like the music supervisor comes to the library and says hey, do you have a song that says this and feels like this?

01:56:47.845 --> 01:56:50.860
It's in this kind of style.

01:56:50.860 --> 01:56:51.503
Do you have that?

01:56:51.503 --> 01:56:51.743
Yeah.

01:56:53.537 --> 01:56:56.463
And the publishing house, the library.

01:56:56.463 --> 01:56:58.548
They're really good curators.

01:56:58.548 --> 01:57:08.529
They're like oh, we got three of those Check this out, and then the supervisor takes those songs and then they start pairing them with images.

01:57:08.529 --> 01:57:13.645
And they're also like looking at waveforms and how those waveforms are cut.

01:57:13.645 --> 01:57:16.271
You know, wait, really, oh, yeah, wait, they take into account the waveforms how those waveforms are cut, you know?

01:57:16.292 --> 01:57:16.512
wait, really.

01:57:16.533 --> 01:57:31.712
Oh yeah, yeah, wait to take an account of the waveforms as in the well the big thing is, like, you know, um well, you know this man, like, like, like, when you listen to a song, you're looking for the best place to shop it.

01:57:31.832 --> 01:57:47.288
Okay, right and you want to make sure that the that in your visuals, that, like, the music stops at a certain point, or if, like, there's a piece of that music that feels a certain way to you and it accentuates what's happening in in the visual.

01:57:47.288 --> 01:57:48.894
Well, you want to be able to.

01:57:48.894 --> 01:57:55.319
You don't want to have to sit there and try to manipulate that song forever to get it just does it for you, it just does it for you just have to match it up.

01:57:55.338 --> 01:58:13.360
Yeah, I got you, but I think like the trick with that is like, as a as a artist, making that music is you don't want to do something that feels so chopped up that it's like it's fake cookie cutter too it's cookie cutter or like, it doesn't feel authentic, you know.

01:58:13.400 --> 01:58:39.703
So, um, I think the difference between ad music and like, like what I do is that, um, and I'm grateful to the label in our relationship is that I'm making things that feel authentic to who I am, you know, and I'm I'm taking, taking, uh, the structures and the formats of, of the way of making it and infusing you, you know.

01:58:39.703 --> 01:58:42.248
Going back to our conversation, infusing my history and what I'm making.

01:58:42.914 --> 01:58:56.685
So, like you know, when you hear Bloom in the Bliss, or you hear Afterlife Parade or Saint Social, whatever it is like to me as an artist, you're hearing a piece of me, you're hearing me making something that that feels authentic to who I am.

01:58:56.685 --> 01:59:19.248
It just so happens that, um, like, I am interested in different genres of music and so each of my projects are distinct in that way that they're they represent a different facet of like what I enjoy making, and and and so like, if you check out bloom in the bliss, then you're going to hear this like pop, very pop, very happy.

01:59:19.248 --> 01:59:19.729
Yeah.

01:59:20.074 --> 01:59:59.828
Personality, this bloom character, you know, like, you know um, and then if you listen to afterlife parade, you're going to hear that more like indie folk version of me that's got these big harmonies and you know the acoustic and you know all that stuff, and then you know the acoustic and you know all that stuff, and then you know, and then my more indie rock side is going to be, you know St Social, the surfy tones and things and and, and you know the way that I I purposefully write differently for all three of those projects, not just musically but even lyrically, like the content, the, the, the lyrical content, the words.

02:00:00.515 --> 02:00:03.177
Oh, your, your creative style, it changes.

02:00:03.498 --> 02:00:07.826
Yeah, okay, my my style changes with with each of those projects.

02:00:07.826 --> 02:00:10.203
I'm trying on different hats.

02:00:10.203 --> 02:00:29.422
Now, none of that is like disingenuous to me, cause I like, I like all of those styles and interested in all those styles and I'm hoping that my flavor of those styles is still uniquely me, you know versus it's my take on those things.

02:00:30.185 --> 02:00:30.685
And that's more.

02:00:31.055 --> 02:01:20.619
That's definitely going to be more valuable in comparison to the ad music where it's just like jingle, simple tune, it's you, you know when it feels like right, you know, when it feels like it's advertising a product, versus like I'm writing something that feels authentic in it but it belongs in this space and it adds um levity or dials up the emotion of a moment happening between two characters or sometimes storytelling storytelling yeah, yeah, yeah motions yeah, music doesn't have that you know, like I would say that, um, when it comes to writing music, for for that, yes, format, that even um the music itself structurally, like in different sections of the song, like you know, a verse to a chorus or a chorus to a chorus or

02:01:20.640 --> 02:01:26.579
whatever there are scene changes, you know you're writing scene changes throughout the song.

02:01:26.579 --> 02:01:32.265
You know I care a lot about the track listing.

02:01:32.265 --> 02:01:32.926
You know.

02:01:32.926 --> 02:01:40.784
So when I write, I want the journey of the record not just the songs, but the journey of the record to feel like the album record.

02:01:41.025 --> 02:01:46.965
Yeah, okay, so from first the whole whole thing to feel like something you want to, and this is just my, my way of writing.

02:01:46.965 --> 02:01:54.042
Not everybody does this, but I want someone to listen to anything I do in one setting.

02:01:54.042 --> 02:02:35.845
I want you to feel like you know the exposition of the movie happens in song one, and then you know you go on this journey and, oh no, there's an abyss moment, there's like this struggle, and then you know you feel like you get out of that struggle and then you know the big ending and I'm not saying that, that all of my records are going to have that plot line, the three-act structure, so to speak right, right, but you know, like, but I, I will say that I try to write records that people want to listen to all the way through, and I and I and I assume that every artist does that but I pay attention to how it, how the this.

02:02:36.226 --> 02:02:49.163
I'm, I just feel very like impassioned by how this the songs feel like do they lead somewhere, like even within the the track listing, not just in the songs, like I care about that in the songs, but I also care about that in track listing.

02:02:49.585 --> 02:02:57.457
So I'm a very macro thinker with that you can even apply this to you know, especially if you wanted to, for the album that's centered around grief.

02:02:57.457 --> 02:03:06.567
You have some songs that start off with the experience of feeling lost, but then you go through this other song yeah, it's like the basis of how you're going.

02:03:06.707 --> 02:03:31.182
Yeah, and I'll say, I'll say this you, man, I'm a very concept driven artist and what I mean by that is like um, you know I talked about genesis, and Genesis was known for like writing concept records, right, and concept records can be anything from like literally telling a story, like through a whole record, you know, where there's like a character that has like this journey, yeah, and every song is about that, right.

02:03:31.182 --> 02:03:44.985
Or just like you know, like the first Afterlife Parade record my oldest band it was called Death and Rebirth and the record was divided in half at first.

02:03:44.985 --> 02:03:52.246
So there were two EPs that then became the whole record and the first half was Death and the second half was Rebirth.

02:03:53.416 --> 02:04:24.692
And so when I was writing that project, I was like on the death side of the record it had a very particular sound feeling and I was not just talking about like physical death, but I was like exploring death conceptually yeah yeah, like you know, like um, like, one of the songs was about a breakup and another song was about moving and another song was about like um, you know uh like experiences that have heavy emotions associated with it, and then rebirth was a the opposite.

02:04:24.692 --> 02:04:28.041
Yeah, like, one song is about getting married, you know, one song is about um.

02:04:28.041 --> 02:04:29.784
You know the the.

02:04:29.845 --> 02:04:38.529
The club is being a place of yeah of a rebirth right where, like, you shake off everything, everything and you become something new, you know.

02:04:38.529 --> 02:04:52.627
So so that's what I mean like conceptual, in that, like I use concepts to give me containers because I'm so curious and and riffy and brainstorming that I need something to kind of keep me focused.

02:04:52.627 --> 02:04:58.663
Yeah, and so a lot of my output is, is connected to concepts because of that.

02:04:58.663 --> 02:05:05.668
So so what I would say is like, like, uh, in, you know, you're talking about strategy or whatever.

02:05:05.668 --> 02:05:23.100
Like, yeah, I use, I use the, the concept thing to guide um me when I'm writing music for that format, you know, and it keeps the brand focused, it keeps the tone of the.

02:05:23.100 --> 02:05:34.108
I mean when I'm talking about tone, I'm talking about, like, the writing voice of the songs and the story behind it.

02:05:34.167 --> 02:05:34.488
on point yes.

02:05:36.695 --> 02:05:47.529
And then it informs like word choice and diction and all that like in the lyrics, and so that's part of, I think, a part of the.

02:05:47.529 --> 02:06:00.140
The rub with writing for a format is like, um, you know, in the early I would try to get away with like some melancholy and they come back.

02:06:00.140 --> 02:06:04.283
Yeah, you can't put that lyric in there Like it's not happy enough.

02:06:04.283 --> 02:06:04.663
Yeah.

02:06:04.663 --> 02:06:05.457
It's got like.

02:06:05.457 --> 02:06:06.863
The whole song has to be happy.

02:06:06.863 --> 02:06:08.480
Can't be any sadness in it.

02:06:08.480 --> 02:06:10.219
Take out that minor chord.

02:06:10.219 --> 02:06:10.900
It doesn't work.

02:06:11.403 --> 02:06:13.780
So it's just a balance and it's like a cog.

02:06:13.780 --> 02:06:15.922
Every song in that record is a cog in a machine.

02:06:17.515 --> 02:06:19.037
It just a balance and it's like a cog, every song in that record.

02:06:19.037 --> 02:06:19.760
It's a machine, it's a puzzle.

02:06:19.760 --> 02:06:26.141
Yeah, you're given, you're given a, a brief, and, and sometimes we're like, hey, we need a song that has this, this kind of phrase in it.

02:06:26.141 --> 02:06:27.828
You know it's got a.

02:06:27.828 --> 02:06:29.453
The vibe of it needs to be this.

02:06:29.453 --> 02:06:37.773
In the early days it was like, um, hey, can you write a project that feels like this band, this band and this band, and you're just like, okay.

02:06:38.475 --> 02:06:39.942
Doesn't it feel restrictive though?

02:06:40.914 --> 02:06:42.761
Well, what's helpful?

02:06:42.761 --> 02:06:43.824
That sounded funny.

02:06:43.824 --> 02:06:49.947
Well, I mean, I think it depends on who you are.

02:06:49.947 --> 02:06:50.748
Okay.

02:06:50.748 --> 02:07:06.287
Now the thing about the way that it would work for me is that like it's not, like it's a partnership, so like I have a say in it, it's not like I'm just beholden to whatever they want from me.

02:07:07.494 --> 02:07:14.507
So if I felt like it wasn't playing to my strengths, then I would say something.

02:07:14.507 --> 02:07:16.652
My strengths, then I would say something.

02:07:16.652 --> 02:07:36.778
But luckily, because I have a really great partnership with the label, like we together can find like something that feels gratifying in what I'm making and I don't feel like I'm being disingenuous where it feels like I'm trying to make something I just can't make.

02:07:36.778 --> 02:07:59.103
You know, so for me, like all my projects represent a facet of who I am as a human and and so I'm lucky that, um, you know, the partnership is like created that kind of synergy and especially the fact that you are a versatile artist with your other bands and you dip in your toes into different genres.

02:07:59.444 --> 02:08:46.805
That gives you a lot of skill sets that almost make you seem like a art type of artist that can cater to whatever it is that they want and still maintaining your own voice yeah, man, um, I, I think that for me, I I like a very eclectic taste in music and I'm a very curious person, and I'll add that like, um, you know, another thing that I've done in the past is I've been in artist development, like I spent some time helping other artists define their voices and, uh, that was everything from like writing with other artists or producing other artists Other artists, meaning artists that are musically very different from me and I think that writing in and of itself is just a skill.

02:08:46.805 --> 02:09:07.002
So some writers are just the best at this one genre, right, and maybe they dip their toes in another genre, kind of like we talked about yeah like, like I like to talk to filmmakers or photographers because it re-informs what I'm making with writing.

02:09:07.024 --> 02:09:07.744
It's the same thing.

02:09:07.744 --> 02:09:10.417
It's like well, what if I tried this other genre?

02:09:10.417 --> 02:09:13.783
It might re-inform the one that I'm the best at, you know.

02:09:13.783 --> 02:09:34.418
So I think that that, because my, my tastes are eclectic, because I like to try new things, that that for me that's been beneficial and and what I'm creating and making and and trying out and and I'm, I think I'm doing the things that suit my voice the best, that suit my writing the best.

02:09:35.000 --> 02:09:44.966
But behind the scenes, man, like I love, like working with artists that aren't like me and writing with them, and stuff like that, I'm always about that.

02:09:44.966 --> 02:09:46.079
It helps me.

02:09:46.079 --> 02:09:54.398
It helps me as much as it helps them, and in fact I think that, like in the future, that I'll be doing that more, or at least I'd like to.

02:09:54.398 --> 02:10:08.510
I'd like to because part of my mission, you know, part of my artistic mission, is to be of benefit to the artistic community that I'm part of locally and the artistic community I'm part of globally.

02:10:08.510 --> 02:10:32.408
You know, like another interesting thing about the way that I work is that I am being fed tracks, sometimes from producers that I've never been in the room with Like for Bloom and the Bliss, like most of the producers I'm working with, are across the pond in the UK.

02:10:32.408 --> 02:10:33.408
Yeah.

02:10:34.077 --> 02:10:42.127
And I've never met them face to face, my A&R guy he lives in Portugal, oh wow.

02:10:42.127 --> 02:10:46.125
We've been on the phone for eight years, but I've never been in the same space as him.

02:10:46.375 --> 02:10:50.283
But you have that build up relationship with the trust between you two.

02:10:50.283 --> 02:10:52.908
Right, that's crazy what that needs to change.

02:11:03.654 --> 02:11:08.368
And if he ever watches this or hears, this's time for us to like hug each other's necks for real, uh shout out to to robin um, yeah, you know like yeah, um, but damn it's really, it's really kind of fascinating, isn't?

02:11:08.389 --> 02:11:11.036
it yeah like um, but yeah, you know.

02:11:11.036 --> 02:11:25.305
So, uh, it's a really interesting way to work and and if you create a life out of that and I'll say, with licensing, it ebbs and flows like everything you have moments where you get those really big hits.

02:11:25.305 --> 02:11:42.064
I was really lucky that one of the big things that happened for me was a BMW commercial and it just so happened that the, the bloom and the bliss song that went with that commercial like, uh, it just matched perfectly.

02:11:42.064 --> 02:11:42.987
It matched perfectly.

02:11:42.987 --> 02:11:50.048
It was, it was the lighted up campaign, and the bloom song is called light it up and it had that vibe.

02:11:50.048 --> 02:11:59.740
And you know, that's to me it's like where it's, it's kind of divine, it's like these songs to me is like where it's, it's kind of divine, it's like these songs, it's like these.

02:11:59.740 --> 02:12:07.682
These two things were like made for each other and and so kudos to, uh, the music supervisors who have to define that, that that one song out of millions and I mean like.

02:12:08.043 --> 02:12:09.787
I mean like it's a, it's a.

02:12:09.787 --> 02:12:20.064
You know, they, they field a handful of things and then that list becomes smaller and then it might be between those two songs, you know, and, and it could be yours and it could be the other guys.

02:12:20.064 --> 02:12:22.798
And you know the music supervisors.

02:12:23.280 --> 02:12:23.601
They have a.

02:12:23.601 --> 02:12:34.786
They have a tough job to figure out like tonally, vibe, wise, like what song is going to hit the best, what's going to feel the best with the visual you know.

02:12:34.786 --> 02:12:56.359
And so you're just as a as an artist's writer, just doing your best to to be the best at what you make, the way you make it, and and the rest is kind of left up to the amazing supervisors, the amazing team that represents you and the supervisors who, who you know, take care of that business.

02:12:56.439 --> 02:13:03.908
And then that's the beautiful thing is when it all works out and it's very humbling.

02:13:03.908 --> 02:13:20.829
It's humbling and I've had moments where and I don't find out about everything Sometimes my songs will be placed somewhere that's a little bit more low key and I won't know about it.

02:13:20.829 --> 02:13:34.626
Um, and then sometimes, like it's like the, the larger spots and they'll be like hey, it's between you and this other person and it's like, ah, you know, fingers crossed, but like there've been moments where I'm like watching Netflix and this shows.

02:13:34.626 --> 02:13:37.221
I'm watching the show and also I'm like wait a second.

02:13:37.595 --> 02:13:38.579
Isn't that my song?

02:13:38.579 --> 02:13:40.962
Is that my voice?

02:13:40.962 --> 02:13:48.163
Yeah, it's like, wow, it's like I can't believe I get to do this.

02:13:48.163 --> 02:13:49.801
This is wild.

02:13:49.801 --> 02:13:52.702
People are hearing this all over the place.

02:13:52.702 --> 02:13:53.465
That's crazy.

02:13:53.465 --> 02:13:54.939
I hope they really like it.

02:13:54.939 --> 02:13:57.496
I hope they go check it out, yeah.

02:13:57.716 --> 02:14:00.601
So I can't do those that may need to hear all this stuff.

02:14:00.882 --> 02:14:26.963
Yeah, dude, I have to imagine Well, it's super, it's super life giving just from being an artist and getting to talk, and, and I love the format of podcasts because it's a conversation, yeah and um, it allows people to see another side of me, you know, and and, and I'm sure that other artists feel that way too how does it feel, how people do to tell everything like that we've discussed?

02:14:27.043 --> 02:14:27.664
how does it feel?

02:14:28.126 --> 02:14:51.184
um, I it feels good because, um, you know, there's layers to what, there's layers to what, what we make, when we make art, you know, and sometimes I wonder if people pay so much attention to the surface of the thing that they miss the depth of what goes into making it.

02:14:51.863 --> 02:14:55.929
Yeah, like the depth of of what goes into making it.

02:14:55.929 --> 02:15:04.055
You know, like that, what it costs, you know personally to make something to get there emotionally.

02:15:04.055 --> 02:15:21.429
You know, like I think, that a lot of what I make, I've wonder sometimes if I, I, what I make, is a spoonful of sugar, but it's to help the medicine go down.

02:15:21.429 --> 02:15:34.350
And I wonder sometimes if, like, people don't like read those lyrics closely enough, because if they did, they might be like oh wait a second.

02:15:34.735 --> 02:15:36.978
What did he say there, you know, like, like, what is that?

02:15:36.978 --> 02:15:54.255
And and um, because I am purposefully always trying to sort of like, subvert, I'm trying to subvert, I'm trying to say I'm trying to, uh, I'm not manipulate, I'm not trying to manipulate what I'm.

02:15:54.255 --> 02:16:11.289
What I'm doing is I want to give people enough of what they want so that I can say something else, that I can add a new image or a new picture to love or heartbreak or grief or whatever.

02:16:12.976 --> 02:16:14.344
It's not even manipulative at all.

02:16:14.344 --> 02:16:15.289
It's a storyteller.

02:16:15.289 --> 02:16:16.255
It's a storyteller, exactly.

02:16:16.676 --> 02:16:20.305
It's like I'm giving my version of this very timeless thing.

02:16:20.305 --> 02:16:40.254
Um, I just I like being able to talk about my work because, and my what I'm making, because, like man, I hope, I hope people like dig deeper and I feel like if, if it takes me talking about it to like make them pay attention to how things are coming together.

02:16:40.254 --> 02:16:59.405
You know, like the Saints social record, man is the most, to me, watertight thing I've ever made In terms of the intent of what it's supposed to be, the way that the track listing is laid out.

02:16:59.405 --> 02:17:07.572
Um, there's lyrical threads throughout, there's musical threads throughout.

02:17:07.572 --> 02:17:21.450
Like when I talked about making a concept record or whatever, like it is a concept record and it's very, um, death and rebirth to me like the afterlife parade.

02:17:21.450 --> 02:17:26.543
The first afterlife parade record is is the the thing I'm the most proud of.

02:17:26.543 --> 02:17:31.217
But, man, this record is like oh man, you're high.

02:17:31.277 --> 02:17:32.378
It's like neck and neck.

02:17:32.378 --> 02:17:33.478
I can't wait to hear it.

02:17:33.760 --> 02:17:53.729
But it's like you know, I had this really funny conversation with a pretty heavy duty manager of like a top 40 artists at the time, and his statement to me about Death and Rebirth was like he's like man, you made Viva La Vida before you made Parachutes.

02:17:55.336 --> 02:17:58.760
And so he was essentially saying Is that a good thing or a bad thing?

02:17:58.760 --> 02:17:59.382
I can't tell.

02:17:59.695 --> 02:18:00.159
To him.

02:18:00.159 --> 02:18:01.066
It was a bad thing.

02:18:01.066 --> 02:18:16.194
To him it was a bad thing because, like In music, like your career path is a story as much as your music is a story.

02:18:16.194 --> 02:18:17.156
Okay, okay.

02:18:17.156 --> 02:18:27.141
So like this is digging really deep into the whole Coldplay catalog thing, yeah, okay.

02:18:27.141 --> 02:19:21.813
So Parachutes is a band of college kids who are in a janky club or in your living room playing these really like, like love-lorn, you know euphoric acoustic songs, right, so like, if you're a kid like me and you see them like visually, like the first images of chris martin, and those guys look like I did baggy pants, t-shirt over your long sleeve, you got, like your, your bracelets on, you know, maybe a necklace your hair is like is, like, you know, flip, see, yeah, exactly, exactly, okay.

02:19:21.813 --> 02:19:37.111
So, like you know, story-wise, if you're, you're like that guy is me, me, and so then all of a sudden you have this emotional attachment and the songs feel like that guy could be playing in my house party.

02:19:37.111 --> 02:19:37.712
Yeah.

02:19:38.662 --> 02:19:42.484
But then you listen to Rush of Blood and now that band.

02:19:42.484 --> 02:19:45.752
Their songs fill an arena.

02:19:45.752 --> 02:19:49.209
They went from your, if you're them.

02:19:49.209 --> 02:19:52.203
They went from your house party to a theater, to an arena.

02:19:52.203 --> 02:19:53.367
Yeah, they went from your, you know if, if you're them.

02:19:53.367 --> 02:19:56.375
Yeah, they went from your house party to a theater, to an arena, and now their music is more elevated.

02:19:56.375 --> 02:20:04.352
When you see them visually, they're like more put together yeah like there's more thought that goes into their haircuts.

02:20:05.301 --> 02:20:07.708
You know there's no thought that goes into their press picks.

02:20:07.708 --> 02:20:13.084
So all of a sudden, you know there's a thought that goes into their press picks.

02:20:13.084 --> 02:20:14.009
So, all of a sudden, because you were.

02:20:14.009 --> 02:20:18.102
They were the guys who played at your house party and they're like your best friends, you're invested in their success.

02:20:18.102 --> 02:20:44.176
So now you're like they made it to the auditorium, like that's almost like a personal win for you as a fan yeah because their their success as a band was something that you had an emotional investment in yeah so when he says you made, you made viva la vita before you made parachutes, what he's saying is how is anybody going to be invested in your story?

02:20:44.417 --> 02:20:48.447
you're already writing music that could fill a and and p.

02:20:48.447 --> 02:20:50.792
Your songs aren't catchy in the traditional sense.

02:20:50.792 --> 02:20:51.153
Yeah.

02:20:51.153 --> 02:20:55.104
You didn't write a radio hit, I mean on Parachutes.

02:20:55.104 --> 02:21:00.907
You've got Yellow, you've got Shiver, you've got Trouble, You've got.

02:21:00.907 --> 02:21:01.674
Don't Panic.

02:21:02.097 --> 02:21:02.260
Yeah.

02:21:02.579 --> 02:21:19.924
These are three very big, important songs that were either on the radio or in movies, Like if you see Garden State, that movie with Zach Graff or whatever and what's her name.

02:21:20.286 --> 02:21:24.744
Oh, my gosh, never seen that movie, actually Never heard of it.

02:21:25.065 --> 02:21:25.887
Okay, recommend it.

02:21:25.887 --> 02:21:27.932
Oh my gosh, please go see Garden State.

02:21:27.932 --> 02:21:35.922
I'll put it on my list, bit okay, recommend it.

02:21:35.922 --> 02:21:36.584
Oh my gosh, please go see.

02:21:36.584 --> 02:21:37.004
Um, yeah, uh, like you.

02:21:37.004 --> 02:21:38.328
You know, don't panic is in that movie.

02:21:38.328 --> 02:21:40.475
You know, zach braff has really good natalie portman.

02:21:40.475 --> 02:21:47.047
Uh, it's gonna, that was gonna bother me, uh, zach braff and uh, natalie portman um his, his directorial debut.

02:21:47.047 --> 02:21:50.391
Um, it's a great movie, great movie.

02:21:51.192 --> 02:21:51.413
What's it?

02:21:51.433 --> 02:21:53.036
called Garden State.

02:21:53.500 --> 02:21:55.827
Keno when you're watching this watch Garden State.

02:21:56.248 --> 02:21:56.790
Watch Garden State.

02:21:56.790 --> 02:22:04.554
That movie is a perfect example of a perfect marriage between music and visual.

02:22:04.554 --> 02:22:09.849
In fact, I would bet money on this.

02:22:10.110 --> 02:22:26.247
I feel like in the aughts, the early aughts, that most of like those indie films were doing that like really, oh man, like go back and watch little miss sunshine, go back and watch ruby sparks, go back and watch away.

02:22:26.247 --> 02:22:49.188
We go, like some of these, like like millennial coming of age movies and the odds, like and I think it's because like that whole licensing thing was like coming into its own, like we were starting to see that like music could be a character in the in the movie, in the in the film.

02:22:49.188 --> 02:22:56.971
Now, as we've gotten farther down the road, you don't see as many examples of that.

02:22:56.971 --> 02:22:59.145
I could be totally wrong on that.

02:22:59.165 --> 02:22:59.968
Wait, what do you mean?

02:22:59.968 --> 02:23:01.863
Is it because it's becoming oversaturated?

02:23:02.164 --> 02:23:07.834
Yeah, I think so Okay, yeah, yeah.

02:23:08.296 --> 02:23:19.796
Well, I mean as a band, how do you punch up your way to make yourself still unique in a sea of all the other musicians that are trying to get their songs featured?

02:23:20.559 --> 02:23:23.890
So I think there's two things at play.

02:23:23.890 --> 02:23:32.674
Like my approach to that with Sane Social would be different from my approach to that with the other projects I'm part of, and Afterlife Parade and Bloom in the Bliss.

02:23:32.674 --> 02:23:59.329
With Afterlife Parade and Bloom in the Bliss, I think that it's more contingent on me, like taking a style of music that I'm interested in and just like being the most me in that style, whereas with St Social, with St Social it's it's more about embracing regional DNA.

02:23:59.329 --> 02:24:00.131
Okay.

02:24:00.260 --> 02:24:09.647
It's more about being so present in in the South and on the Gulf coast, like soaking up the flavors and the feelings and the sound of this place.

02:24:09.647 --> 02:24:34.065
Because, um, there's a, there's a book called how music works by david burn, the lead singer of the talking heads, okay, and he there's a section in the book, a chapter in the book, where he talks about how the space music is created in, affects the music, affects the space.

02:24:34.065 --> 02:24:47.560
He talked about how, like in the earlier stages of his band, they wrote very percussive music and that was because they played in a janky club called the CBGB.

02:24:47.560 --> 02:24:53.566
It was a punk club, so they needed to make music that would fill that space.

02:24:53.566 --> 02:24:58.993
But then they got bigger, they would try to play that kind of music in like a theater.

02:24:58.993 --> 02:25:07.247
It didn't work because it was like cacophonous, it was like, it was hard to like, it didn't feel good.

02:25:07.247 --> 02:25:13.164
So they had to make music that was then more open, so less like with drums like, like, so.

02:25:13.504 --> 02:25:23.084
So, uh, you too is a band that makes music that fits both spaces right, so it's almost like on purpose, like they knew.

02:25:23.084 --> 02:25:23.967
You know what I'm saying.

02:25:24.308 --> 02:25:26.300
So what would the artist when they're going?

02:25:26.300 --> 02:25:27.343
It sounds like the artist.

02:25:27.343 --> 02:25:29.246
You have two options based on what you're saying.

02:25:29.246 --> 02:25:37.667
The artist will either go on their journey and adapt to their success and growth or there's an artist like you two you just mentioned.

02:25:37.667 --> 02:25:43.989
They automatically knew what they wanted, which is like arena, whatever same thing with queen.

02:25:43.989 --> 02:25:45.211
I know some of their songs.

02:25:45.211 --> 02:25:52.576
They became more arena like like uh, we will rock you, yeah, um yeah, and acdc, what?

02:25:52.576 --> 02:25:57.371
I know is that, but the point is yeah I think how was that for you?

02:25:57.531 --> 02:25:59.477
did you choose um?

02:25:59.477 --> 02:26:01.161
Which path did you choose?

02:26:01.161 --> 02:26:01.800
Basically?

02:26:02.182 --> 02:26:15.115
well, I think, I think with afterlife parade, I don't think that I was like aware of what I'm telling you right now.

02:26:15.115 --> 02:26:25.072
Like I so, um, same, same manager, different conversation.

02:26:25.072 --> 02:26:32.087
Okay, I went out to LA, um, and so, uh, I I won.

02:26:32.087 --> 02:26:48.971
I won a contest the the jansport battle of the bands, and got in in the summer 2010 I got to play at the forecastle festival, yeah, so that was like my first big, like major achievement, where it was like my parents were like maybe he's not crazy, you know.

02:26:48.992 --> 02:26:51.235
Like, like maybe maybe you could actually do this.

02:26:51.235 --> 02:26:55.489
Yeah, so, so, because of that content, test it.

02:26:55.489 --> 02:27:01.210
It uh gave me an opportunity to like use that as leverage in in the business.

02:27:01.210 --> 02:27:17.585
So I flew out to LA talking with this guy and, uh, he's a manager, top 40 artists and he's like, at this point I had recorded a record, a solo record, and it was good, I felt good about it.

02:27:17.585 --> 02:27:19.930
I wouldn't say that like.

02:27:19.930 --> 02:27:31.713
His feedback was this he was like you got a decent voice, pretty good songwriter, he's like, but you don't have a hit like.

02:27:31.713 --> 02:27:33.261
You don't have that one song.

02:27:33.281 --> 02:27:44.626
That like is gonna put you on the map yeah and there's nothing really interesting about you you're just your average, like white white pop.

02:27:44.626 --> 02:27:45.445
How do you?

02:27:45.445 --> 02:27:47.929
Take the pop like that.

02:27:47.929 --> 02:27:55.816
So what I did was and maybe this is what makes me different from a lot of people is I didn't let that deflate me.

02:27:55.816 --> 02:27:56.436
Okay.

02:27:56.436 --> 02:28:06.129
What I said was what is the most interesting thing that I could do, like what is the most me thing that I would do.

02:28:06.129 --> 02:28:06.569
Yeah.

02:28:07.261 --> 02:28:16.672
And then I was like, and this whole hit thing, like do I care about that or do I just want to make something that feels amazing to me?

02:28:16.672 --> 02:28:37.111
And I was just like I don't like you know, at the time it was like I think there might be a formula for what he's talking about, but I don't know what he's talking about, but I don't know, and and I and um, you know, and I, I'll say this I think that there is an art to writing a single.

02:28:37.111 --> 02:28:39.958
There is a formula for writing a single.

02:28:39.958 --> 02:28:43.832
Uh, it's going to be different for every artist, but it's.

02:28:43.832 --> 02:28:50.311
It's like the song you use as the business card for the record right and and, and I like you just.

02:28:51.161 --> 02:29:01.769
I think that you have to have that at least one song for every record, and if you're really good, maybe four, four or five for every record you know.

02:29:01.769 --> 02:29:12.250
So I eventually started like studying how singles work, you know.

02:29:12.570 --> 02:29:45.370
But um, when he said what he said, I went back and I scrapped my solo record no way and that is when I started afterlife parade, because I had all these songs that were so like outside of my normal wheelhouse, yeah, but I felt like were interesting because they were me processing a very deep thing in a very interesting way, and so to me, it was like I'm gonna work on that.

02:29:45.771 --> 02:29:48.906
I'm gonna work on being the most me I can be.

02:29:48.906 --> 02:30:01.944
I'm going to dial up what makes me unique and interesting, and I think it's these songs and, and so, in a matter of speaking, um, what I did was I shot for the moon.

02:30:01.944 --> 02:30:11.777
You know, like I, I created a band and brought in a collective of musicians to become that band yeah, before it existed.

02:30:11.777 --> 02:30:25.683
So that was me like creating, aspirationally, making what I wanted to happen, and so I think that's why it sounds like it does.

02:30:25.683 --> 02:30:27.887
It sounds huge, it's still huge record.

02:30:27.887 --> 02:30:31.314
I think it's a timeless record and I'm really proud of it.

02:30:32.600 --> 02:30:42.546
But, man, I hadn't played, I barely played any of those songs in a space, much less with a band.

02:30:42.546 --> 02:30:45.429
So it was like record first, band second.

02:30:45.429 --> 02:31:02.263
And then I think one of the big things I learned from that process was that I, I, I had wished that the band had existed, and, and part of part of my journey with being in a band is like I wanted to be part of a family.

02:31:02.263 --> 02:31:08.233
You know, like, like, um, my parents divorced early.

02:31:08.233 --> 02:31:10.056
I'm the only son between them.

02:31:10.056 --> 02:31:24.350
I have siblings, but like they're between my parents and their significant others, and I love, I love my family, but I always felt like out of place because I was bouncing between homes all the time.

02:31:24.350 --> 02:31:29.081
So I think like afterlife parade was my way of reaching out.

02:31:30.202 --> 02:31:44.736
You were trying to find a family, trying to find a chosen family and the whole conversation with Afterlife Parade from day one was about grief and joy and how to turn grief on its head.

02:31:44.736 --> 02:31:49.301
And is death a part of life?

02:31:49.301 --> 02:31:51.989
Not just like a physical death, but are we dying and being reborn all the time?

02:31:51.989 --> 02:31:52.370
Yeah.

02:31:52.370 --> 02:31:57.512
And is it something to be celebrated rather than being mourned?

02:31:57.512 --> 02:32:00.989
And so that was what I was subverting from the beginning.

02:32:00.989 --> 02:32:04.327
So the sound of it was huge.

02:32:04.327 --> 02:32:05.864
The sound of it was huge.

02:32:07.022 --> 02:32:08.066
And I think that's what he was saying.

02:32:08.066 --> 02:32:11.146
Yeah, is that you made something so huge.

02:32:11.146 --> 02:32:13.592
There's no way you can keep up with it.

02:32:13.592 --> 02:32:20.173
And there's no way that people can fully attach to it because they haven't been along with you on a journey to get that big.

02:32:20.879 --> 02:32:28.853
Especially as you change the stage and then you don't have a legitimate radio single, yeah.

02:32:30.424 --> 02:32:36.490
However, the single from that record is what paid my bills for the next five years because of micro licensing.

02:32:36.490 --> 02:32:37.234
That thing was a hit.

02:32:37.234 --> 02:32:39.220
I'm micro licensing, I think it's still.

02:32:39.220 --> 02:32:42.287
I think he's still doing stuff holy shit.

02:32:42.287 --> 02:32:45.721
Congratulations to that I mean, yeah, bro, isn't that amazing?

02:32:45.721 --> 02:32:53.025
Like even I'm just like damn, you know, like that's crazy, uh, but uh, I'm, it's humbling, but um.

02:32:53.025 --> 02:32:58.460
So I think, like with saint social, the difference is, it's like I said, I learned the lessons.

02:32:58.682 --> 02:33:12.141
It's like you know, we've been playing these songs for a few years now yeah and letting people experience them and grow hungry for the recorded form of what they are.

02:33:12.141 --> 02:33:17.931
And and now it's like we can't wait to put this record out so that people have something to.

02:33:17.931 --> 02:33:25.411
They have the souvenir of the live experience, but they also have something to listen to, where, man, I can't wait for the.

02:33:25.411 --> 02:33:29.833
I can't wait for people to like, know our songs well enough to sing them back to us, you know, and the, the, the idea of like, you know, man, I can't wait for people to know our songs well enough to sing them back to us.

02:33:29.833 --> 02:33:53.772
And the idea of people being able to read those lyrics now and know what I'm actually talking about, because their experience up to this point has just been seeing us live for the last couple of years and not having the resource of the, the recorded form.

02:33:54.459 --> 02:34:02.528
So the beautiful thing is what's making this different than you know, afterlife parades, formation?

02:34:02.528 --> 02:34:03.380
Is that a like.

02:34:03.380 --> 02:34:13.103
I'm in a band from the, from the, from the jump, and I'm in a band with friends that I have like decades worth of relationship with.

02:34:13.103 --> 02:34:17.475
You know, like deep, like rooted friendship and love.

02:34:17.475 --> 02:34:20.001
Uh, brian the drummer and I we've been.

02:34:20.001 --> 02:34:25.747
I mean, we played together as teenagers damn history, dude history history.

02:34:25.768 --> 02:34:26.808
so History dude Talk about history.

02:34:26.869 --> 02:34:31.674
So this is like us, as friends, taking our big swing.

02:34:32.195 --> 02:34:35.769
Yeah, you know, and so there's that.

02:34:35.769 --> 02:34:46.014
And then you know, saint Social is the parachutes.

02:34:46.014 --> 02:35:12.927
It is like I purposefully tried to take those, those words of you know, I don't think he was offering to me that at the time, his advice, he was just being, you know, um, a voice from the business, like calling, calling it what it was, yeah, right, and so so now this is me like, okay, I hear you, I hear you and you're right, I see, I see what you mean.

02:35:12.927 --> 02:35:21.712
So let's do the version, my version, of what that would be but, I, feel like.

02:35:21.733 --> 02:35:41.760
My perspective is that there's at least three business cards on this record, and I think all the songs have those choruses that people can sing along to, and I hope they will.

02:35:41.760 --> 02:36:09.364
I hope they'll sing them loud and proud, seriously, and I hope that for the people who have seen us live so far, that have heard these songs, yeah, that when they read those lyrics, I hope that they'll speak to them, and then for the people that are yet to hear us, I hope they'll dive in man, and so I think it's kind of the best of all the worlds it's.

02:36:09.364 --> 02:36:15.154
It's a record that communicates sonically where we want to go.

02:36:15.154 --> 02:36:17.666
Yeah, like what our like, like man, I want to.

02:36:17.666 --> 02:36:28.263
I want to play an arena, you know, like like you know, but I know that you know you gotta build this, you gotta build the story, and and I'm okay with that I think it's beautiful.

02:36:29.645 --> 02:36:43.771
What ended up happening with Afterlife Parade is we had this huge record, we couldn't get into venues, we were struggling, and, because I was green, the whole booking thing was something I had yet to learn.

02:36:43.771 --> 02:37:03.743
So what ends up happening, though and it's actually really beautiful is that we start playing a bunch of house shows and so we have to strip everything back, which is fine, because at the core of Afterlight Parade is an acoustic guitar, is a voice in an acoustic guitar, and so it kind of.

02:37:03.743 --> 02:37:13.736
I started looking at our band name and you know, I think it's that divine whisper there and like it's an afterlife parade.

02:37:13.736 --> 02:37:15.022
You're like, what does a parade do?

02:37:15.022 --> 02:37:22.429
It trickles into a city, you know, starts real small and then it gets bigger and bigger.

02:37:22.509 --> 02:37:34.908
So I was like so maybe, like when we're building relationships, because everything I do is relational right, like I want our bands, my band, the bands I'm- involved in to be that really dynamic, intimate connection.

02:37:35.068 --> 02:37:44.229
Yeah, so I was like so if a parade trickles into a city then it's like every time we play it should get bigger.

02:37:44.229 --> 02:37:48.847
So it was like, well, if I could fill a house, I could fill a coffee shop.

02:37:48.847 --> 02:37:50.586
If I could fill a coffee shop, I could fill a theater.

02:37:50.586 --> 02:37:52.500
If I could fill a theater, I could fill.

02:37:52.500 --> 02:37:58.899
And so it's like, okay, so this thing could be built on those really deep connections.

02:37:58.899 --> 02:38:08.608
It's like, man, you play that house show and all of a sudden you're having these wonderful conversations and it makes people want to come back.

02:38:08.608 --> 02:38:09.270
Yeah.

02:38:09.329 --> 02:38:10.111
Bring people with them.

02:38:10.111 --> 02:38:15.673
And so, all of a sudden, like with Afterlife Parade, that's what we started doing.

02:38:15.673 --> 02:38:24.932
We started trying to grow out in every city that we played in and you know, the touring history of Afterlife Parade got cut short, unfortunately.

02:38:24.932 --> 02:38:27.949
Luckily, the music is still there.

02:38:27.949 --> 02:38:50.774
Luckily, the music is still there and, frankly, I'd love one day to take the band on a tour and it just might need to be in a gap with St Social probably, but I'd love those songs to get their due and and uh.

02:38:50.774 --> 02:38:55.704
But man, like I learned a lot of lessons, you know, and um and I, and I think that playing house shows made me a better front man.

02:38:55.704 --> 02:39:07.634
So I think, like my sort of desire is to make whatever I venue I play and feel as big as it is, to make it feel but the house shows you are.

02:39:07.921 --> 02:39:27.028
It's a smaller intimate space and you're building that relationship and once you get bigger, when you build that loyal fan base that have been intimate with you in a environment like that, they'll follow you when, like you said, the parade becomes bigger, because they've seen you yeah how do you are sonically yeah, when everything's stripped down to the simplest instruments?

02:39:27.028 --> 02:39:38.944
Yeah, they still know that that sound will always still be there as you get bigger, yeah, and when you get to the other the arena like, uh like yeah, you will have your own moment similar to we will rock you.

02:39:39.527 --> 02:39:41.331
Everyone is just let it be.

02:39:41.611 --> 02:39:47.709
Let me, yeah, yeah, yeah, uh, I mean I love afterlife parade, um, grateful for, yeah, I'm still we're.

02:39:47.709 --> 02:39:49.092
I mean we're still making music.

02:39:49.092 --> 02:40:05.843
You know it's it's right now more of a recording project, but, man, all of us talk about, you know, in the current iteration of what it is, is that we'd love to get the opportunity to get together and, like, be in a live space, and I think it'll happen.

02:40:05.843 --> 02:40:13.263
But, like, we put out a project not in 23, but 22.

02:40:13.263 --> 02:40:14.084
So our last, the last ep.

02:40:14.103 --> 02:40:21.406
Yeah, that we just did, and we we're working, we should, we'll have something out pretty soon, this year too with that.

02:40:21.686 --> 02:40:25.996
So um, well, okay, uh, I guess.

02:40:25.996 --> 02:40:31.800
Uh, just so you know we're almost out of time, but we unfortunately have so much to talk about.

02:40:31.800 --> 02:40:32.422
But you know what?

02:40:32.422 --> 02:40:48.453
We'll probably have him on another episode um hey yeah, let's do it, man, oh yeah um, there was one question I would like to get into before we dive into the closing uh, as far as the bigger picture having all this, having to explain all these achievements.

02:40:48.934 --> 02:40:54.573
I remember you were in a spot where you felt like music just was just not in your cards.

02:40:54.573 --> 02:41:04.805
How were you able to navigate through that, and I would love for you to share with the other people here, because most artists it doesn't even have to be music, but film photography.

02:41:04.805 --> 02:41:09.612
We will have days where we're just like why am I not getting the results that I want?

02:41:09.612 --> 02:41:13.244
And we are this freaking close yeah giving up.

02:41:13.244 --> 02:41:16.729
So how did you navigate that um?

02:41:18.433 --> 02:41:34.708
well, I I think that art and life ebb and flow and and you have like moments where you're on top of the hill and you have moments where you're not right, and I think, um the time that you're talking about I was just in a dark moment.

02:41:34.769 --> 02:41:59.397
In general, yeah and and I was just having to come to terms with, like, like you know, like I think, I think a lot of what I was feeling at the time was connected to how I wanted making music to feel and how I wanted to connect with people through the medium.

02:41:59.397 --> 02:41:59.897
Yeah.

02:41:59.897 --> 02:42:05.632
Right, like I'm not making music because I necessarily want to be famous.

02:42:05.632 --> 02:42:14.763
I'm making music because I want to impact the world, impact culture, and I want to connect on a certain level.

02:42:14.824 --> 02:43:00.067
For some reason, when I'm on stage I feel the most at home and I feel like, and I don't like, I don't feel like at home, at home, but but there's like a part of me that is access, that when that's not there, I don't feel like me yeah most me right, and I want to share that feeling with other people on a certain level and that's why, like, I aspire to play bigger venues and I and I hope that more people get on board with with, um, what I'm making, knowing that that on a certain level there's like a, a divine aspect to it, right, um, and you know, I know for some people they don't, they don't want to look at it like that and that's fine, it doesn't matter to me.

02:43:00.067 --> 02:43:13.578
But what I mean is like the aspect of it where, like, for some reason, what I'm making is elevated in a particular way that is visible enough for more than enough people to find it.

02:43:13.578 --> 02:43:13.920
Yeah.

02:43:14.881 --> 02:43:37.165
To have a fan base that you'll go to different cities and people will show up and you can make a living right living right like um off of, uh, putting on shows where people really love what you're making and it resonates with them.

02:43:37.184 --> 02:44:07.730
and so I think at the time I was, I was looking at my path and and coming to terms with could I, would I be okay with strictly like making music for the visual format but not having a live presence, and I, I for me, like playing live is where it's at.

02:44:07.730 --> 02:44:08.811
I just love it.

02:44:08.811 --> 02:44:24.352
I just love building a set list, taking people on a journey, feeling that reciprocal joy, you know, being able to smile at someone in the crowd, and you know them smile back.

02:44:24.352 --> 02:44:29.171
Like my band, we have a song called Iconista and I don't really want to give away too much what the song is about.

02:44:29.171 --> 02:44:30.560
Like my band, we have a song called Iconista and it's it's.

02:44:31.763 --> 02:44:48.572
I don't really want to give away too much what the song is about, yeah, yeah, but I will say that when I sing it, when I sing it, one of my favorite things to do is to, like you know, point out a lady and, just like, smile at her and make her feel good.

02:44:48.572 --> 02:44:51.058
You know, make her feel like an iconista.

02:44:51.058 --> 02:44:59.625
You know, like I can, what I canista I can, oh okay, I canista yeah, I think, um, in portuguese it's iconista, if I'm not mistaken.

02:45:00.227 --> 02:45:01.731
Really, yeah, fact, check me on that.

02:45:01.731 --> 02:45:04.319
But uh, I I'm calling it iconista.

02:45:04.319 --> 02:45:09.368
So iconista, you know, like a female icon yeah, you know.

02:45:09.368 --> 02:45:16.707
So, um, in the, in the, in the record, in the saint social world, it there's something more going on there.

02:45:16.707 --> 02:45:20.084
I just I want to save that, I want to say yeah, guys, I want to save

02:45:20.104 --> 02:45:32.466
that I want to say not ready to talk about that yet of course of course, but anyway, uh, but, man, um, I think that, um, what that?

02:45:32.466 --> 02:45:58.194
What inevitably happened to me is I got so in the licensing game, so deep into it, that I was missing out on the people connection, that my focus was writing and writing and writing and producing, and producing and producing and like it being so online, and it felt less connecting to me that's an irony.

02:45:58.681 --> 02:46:02.966
That's kind of an irony of of making Speaking of the irony, I remember reading your bio.

02:46:02.966 --> 02:46:08.105
You love to put ironies in your songs, so the fact that you the fact that you we brought up the irony.

02:46:08.105 --> 02:46:10.240
That's what I let you know, that I read that part.

02:46:10.320 --> 02:46:12.906
That's cool man I, that's really cool that you picked up on that.

02:46:12.906 --> 02:46:26.325
Yeah, um, I in my songs I like to play with, like uh, there's a song called iron and wood and the chorus says uh, uh, you know I love you, don't be shy, we're gonna set this whole wide world on fire.

02:46:26.325 --> 02:46:39.757
Yeah, and so that's me being like is the fire a healthy relationship, or are we burning everything down because the passion is just like we're just working on each other?

02:46:39.757 --> 02:46:40.420
You know what I'm saying.

02:46:40.681 --> 02:46:43.995
It sounds like you love the duality of both sides of every story.

02:46:45.362 --> 02:46:47.269
Because isn't that being human?

02:46:47.709 --> 02:46:50.033
Yeah, you can't have it's black and white, right?

02:46:50.033 --> 02:46:50.840
It's like that.

02:46:55.029 --> 02:46:56.612
Grief and joy are two sides of the track.

02:46:56.612 --> 02:46:58.600
Yeah, and they run together right.

02:46:58.600 --> 02:47:06.988
So for me, that's me trying to live that, to understand that to how do these two things work together?

02:47:06.988 --> 02:47:11.284
So I think it's really fun to write choruses that could go both ways.

02:47:11.284 --> 02:47:16.229
Yeah, so I spend a fair amount of time like messing with that.

02:47:16.229 --> 02:47:25.209
So, going back to what you said online, you felt I just felt so disconnected, and so I think it was just like another round of processing.

02:47:25.209 --> 02:47:25.630
Yeah.

02:47:25.920 --> 02:47:33.683
It's not quite going like I hoped, because I'm not playing out as much as I want to or connecting with people.

02:47:33.683 --> 02:47:37.452
I was feeling like unknown, feeling like I was disappearing.

02:47:37.452 --> 02:47:44.452
So I think what's beautiful is that things picked up with Saint Social and so like it.

02:47:44.452 --> 02:47:51.284
So then the other piece of that is, I think, like, as artists, we have to get down to the like.

02:47:51.284 --> 02:48:00.933
The motivation, our motivation for making you know is your motivation to be what.

02:48:01.032 --> 02:48:08.344
If only 10 people like what you made or showed up, would that be good enough for you?

02:48:08.344 --> 02:48:10.934
Like what you made or showed up?

02:48:10.934 --> 02:48:14.745
Would that be good enough for you, and so all of us?

02:48:14.745 --> 02:48:16.500
Is it good enough that you get to play with your friends and make this music right?

02:48:16.500 --> 02:48:31.111
So I think that all of us have different thresholds for what we're satisfied with, as far as what is success, and so you have to know, like you have to find that.

02:48:31.111 --> 02:48:36.792
And so I think, for for me at the time, I'd kind of hit a certain threshold and I had to.

02:48:36.792 --> 02:48:49.825
I was judging, like if all I'm doing is getting to make, make this and put it out into the world, and I don't get to do the live thing, or can I find another way to do the live thing Right.

02:48:49.825 --> 02:48:51.487
Am I okay with that?

02:48:52.167 --> 02:48:59.675
And and then, combined with just, I was like going through rough, a rough time in my life personally with stuff that has nothing to do with music.

02:48:59.675 --> 02:49:09.990
Yeah, you know, and I was like wrestling with some really big questions and wrestling with the path, my life path, and a lot of different things going on at the time.

02:49:09.990 --> 02:49:11.765
So I think all of it compacted.

02:49:11.765 --> 02:49:26.328
So I think that, as an artist, you just have to take inventory and, man, I think we also have to be okay with reinventing ourselves and knowing where you're at in your journey.

02:49:26.328 --> 02:49:28.400
I'm married with four kids now.

02:49:28.400 --> 02:49:34.606
Going like where you're at in your journey, you know, like I'm married with four kids now and I'm at a stage in my life where music is always going to be a part of my life.

02:49:34.606 --> 02:49:42.513
But, you know, pending how things go in the next few years, you know, I might need to reposition that thing in my life.

02:49:42.513 --> 02:49:45.856
That doesn't necessarily mean it's a bad thing.

02:49:52.360 --> 02:50:00.885
What it means is that maybe this is my outlook, that, um, I get to do something else yeah, you know, I have to go back to like my values as a person that are deeper than me being on a stage.

02:50:00.885 --> 02:50:17.828
So, like values, like I want to travel and I want to see the world and I want to do it with my family, with me, and I want to get to meet new people and I want to experience new people and I want to ask questions and be curious about things.

02:50:17.828 --> 02:50:26.213
So then, all of a sudden, that value dictates the vehicle for making that happen.

02:50:26.213 --> 02:50:33.060
Yeah, and it doesn't stop me from making my art making that happen.

02:50:33.060 --> 02:50:35.826
Yeah, and it doesn't stop me from making my art.

02:50:35.826 --> 02:50:40.556
It just, it just repositions art's role in my values um, being embodied the hardest.

02:50:40.877 --> 02:50:51.135
Well, I I love what you just said, because the hardest part about um reinventing ourself is that the first thing we need to do is be able to accept that we need to let things go.

02:50:51.719 --> 02:50:54.849
So you know, I think this is where, like for me it's hard.

02:50:54.849 --> 02:50:59.868
You know, like you know, I believe in a death and rebirth.

02:51:00.729 --> 02:51:02.112
Oh my God, it's all connecting.

02:51:02.112 --> 02:51:04.166
Yeah, it's an engine, you know.

02:51:04.979 --> 02:51:08.466
For me, that's like part of my, like, spiritual journey.

02:51:08.466 --> 02:51:13.193
Yeah, I see that as a rhythm and a pattern in the world.

02:51:13.193 --> 02:51:27.195
So if I see it in the world, I know it's in me too, and so I choose my spiritual practices to be more in tune with that happening in my heart.

02:51:27.195 --> 02:51:46.980
And I think at the time that you and I were talking, I was in like a place of grief and so I was processing the grief and the loss of maybe I need to let this go, and I think it's okay to let things go.

02:51:46.980 --> 02:52:04.445
It just so happened that sometime after that time that you and I were hanging out, that I just a second wind came into my life and it was almost like I got one more in me.

02:52:04.445 --> 02:52:07.047
I got one more go at this.

02:52:07.967 --> 02:52:27.013
And not to put too much pressure, you know, not to not to put too much, too much pressure, but but I also think, like with Sane Social at this moment, you know that things are happening in this band and for this band that haven't happened in my previous projects.

02:52:27.013 --> 02:52:29.213
Yeah, my previous projects, yeah.

02:52:29.213 --> 02:52:34.275
So there's like a vibe or a synergy or a flow that we're hitting.

02:52:34.275 --> 02:52:42.917
That just feels like man, like this is really good, and I think this is going to be, it's going to get really good.

02:52:42.917 --> 02:52:58.448
You got to keep that parade going, and it's just like you gotta keep the parade going and so, and so I so, with St Social, like I expect you know to, to to hit some, some mile markers that I haven't hit yet.

02:52:58.448 --> 02:53:11.076
And and another I'll say this too, man, part of me wanting to hit those mile markers is because, because I want to be helpful to other artists.

02:53:11.256 --> 02:53:21.592
Yeah, and I know that that part of being helpful is hitting those mile markers to be able to pass on wisdom or experience back down the line.

02:53:21.592 --> 02:53:26.813
And so you know, like I said, everything that I've done is communal.

02:53:26.813 --> 02:53:34.070
Everything has been me reaching out, everything has been that I've made has been to give back.

02:53:34.070 --> 02:53:50.612
Everything I've made is about a bigger purpose than me, and that's just the, the kind of art that that I want, that I've always felt that I made and want to make that's hell of a legacy to uphold and I think I hope so, I hope so.

02:53:52.799 --> 02:54:02.282
I hope we'll talk in the near future and it'll be like whoa Remember that one time we sat and talked about this and we did that, and we did this and we did this yeah, man, of course, I think why?

02:54:02.282 --> 02:54:03.545
Not why not me?

02:54:03.545 --> 02:54:04.425
That's another thing.

02:54:04.425 --> 02:54:05.548
Why not me?

02:54:06.049 --> 02:54:07.010
Oh my God, I relate.

02:54:07.010 --> 02:54:07.811
I love that.

02:54:07.811 --> 02:54:08.413
Why not?

02:54:09.494 --> 02:54:10.014
Like why not?

02:54:10.014 --> 02:54:11.881
You know?

02:54:11.881 --> 02:54:25.504
Also, I think, like you know not to get hokey, but like I think sometimes you just sense it Like it's, it's my turn, you know, and it's not like a, like a entitled thing, it's like no man.

02:54:25.504 --> 02:54:35.556
I did the work on me and I invested that in making something that is true, very true, the truest I can get.

02:54:35.556 --> 02:54:46.431
Yeah, it's like the bedrock of my DNA I got, as this is the closest, like I said, this is the closest I've been to, like I mean, this band sounds like I feel.

02:54:46.431 --> 02:54:48.354
Do you understand what I'm saying?

02:54:48.395 --> 02:55:09.552
Yeah, you did the work to get to yeah and and I'm not taking taking credit for the whole package because it's it's, it's the, you know, the four of us or whatever, that have made this thing right, but it's like, man, I've, I like, uh, I'm, I'm with great friends and our whole our history is going into this music.

02:55:09.552 --> 02:55:15.029
You know our like, uh, the way that I see the world is in this music.

02:55:15.029 --> 02:55:17.685
You know what I hope for is in this music.

02:55:17.685 --> 02:55:18.448
Yeah.

02:55:18.790 --> 02:55:35.833
Um, what I hope to pass on is in this music and and I'm crazy, crazy enough to believe that there's there's three, four, five, six, seven, eight more records, you know, that need that are just waiting, just need to get made.

02:55:36.540 --> 02:55:41.885
And I, you know like and I'm writing all the time, you know I'm also a very prolific guy, you know.

02:55:41.885 --> 02:55:50.391
So I'm always thinking ahead and you know, I try to find the balance between being present and thinking ahead.

02:55:50.391 --> 02:56:33.764
You know, I think that's a challenge, and I think that in the moment that you and I were talking, sharing, and I was kind of having a hard time, is because I was in a moment where, for a guy that constantly dreams ahead and sees a picture, it's like I had lost it, it's like that picture wasn't there and I felt desperate and I felt broken, and it was almost like I needed, there was a spiritual muscle that I didn't have, and all the ones that I'd used before didn't work, not in this space, and so I was at a loss, and so I needed, I needed a different kind of comfort.

02:56:33.764 --> 02:56:48.347
I needed a different kind of wisdom, a different kind of energy to step in and carry me, um, and I wouldn't, I wouldn't say that that every step forward has been easy since then.

02:56:48.347 --> 02:56:48.747
Yeah.

02:56:49.588 --> 02:57:05.849
But I would say that I feel more surrendered and trusting in the process of becoming who I am right now, today, and I think that's another thing that we have to let the art do.

02:57:05.849 --> 02:57:06.992
You know what man?

02:57:06.992 --> 02:57:09.510
Sometimes I think we have to let the art do.

02:57:09.510 --> 02:57:10.013
You know what, man?

02:57:10.013 --> 02:57:11.842
Sometimes I think we have to let it just be good.

02:57:11.842 --> 02:57:17.454
I don't, I don't like like, did you show up?

02:57:17.454 --> 02:57:18.275
Did?

02:57:18.275 --> 02:57:18.717
Did you?

02:57:18.717 --> 02:57:20.522
Did you try to film something today?

02:57:20.522 --> 02:57:24.493
Did you try to scribble something today?

02:57:24.493 --> 02:57:27.140
You know, did you try to just draw a little bit?

02:57:27.140 --> 02:57:33.654
I think, like when you're grieving, like when you're walking through grief, that I love you sometimes is enough.

02:57:33.654 --> 02:57:36.486
Just let it be enough.

02:57:37.761 --> 02:57:51.031
And I've had to learn that too, that not every lyric is going to be a million dollar lyric, and sometimes you need the two cent lyric to set up the.

02:57:51.031 --> 02:57:52.454
The five dollar lyric.

02:57:52.454 --> 02:57:54.484
That's a great one.

02:57:54.484 --> 02:57:59.361
Sometimes you need that, you need the basic one to be the setup for the big punch.

02:57:59.361 --> 02:58:03.613
Yeah, and I think like what, if sometimes, what our art is the same?

02:58:03.613 --> 02:58:11.833
You know, like I need to get this one song done and it's not going to be the one I release, but I needed to do it because of the next one.

02:58:11.833 --> 02:58:22.542
Yeah, because something about what I learned in this one is what the next one needs to be a banger, and that's okay too, bro, I like.

02:58:22.542 --> 02:58:24.489
My phone is full of voice memos.

02:58:24.489 --> 02:58:28.090
I have folders on my desktop with stuff Nobody will ever hear.

02:58:28.090 --> 02:58:28.191
Yeah.

02:58:29.181 --> 02:58:36.968
It's me riffing, working through something to get to the one thing, and that's okay, it's good.

02:58:36.968 --> 02:58:44.012
And I think, like in the moment that you and I were talking, I was just in that moment where what I needed to do was just be good with good.

02:58:45.433 --> 02:58:49.889
Yeah, you know, all that reminds me of this quote that I read.

02:58:49.889 --> 02:58:52.802
Is that especially why I like the words that you use.

02:58:52.802 --> 02:58:53.405
Why not me?

02:58:53.405 --> 02:59:07.215
There is this thing that I read which was the most terrifying thing at the end of your life is being at your deathbed and, as your life is slipping away, the last thing you are going to start that you see your.

02:59:07.215 --> 02:59:09.722
You know mass memories, everything, but then there's one more thing left that you're going to see your.

02:59:09.722 --> 02:59:20.252
You know mesmerism, everything, but then there's one more thing left that you're gonna see, and it's and those are the ideas and the gifts that you were imbued and ideas are now gonna die with you and that's the scariest thing.

02:59:20.291 --> 02:59:22.703
You don't want to leave them with you when you pass.

02:59:22.703 --> 02:59:25.409
Yeah, and the fact that you're, those ideas start.

02:59:25.409 --> 02:59:31.790
It's like um, they're all standing before you and they're going to ask you why not me?

02:59:31.790 --> 02:59:32.611
Why not me?

02:59:32.611 --> 02:59:36.565
Wow, why didn't you give me enough time?

02:59:36.565 --> 02:59:38.912
To become something great.

02:59:38.912 --> 02:59:40.865
And they're all looking at you.

02:59:40.865 --> 02:59:42.966
How are you going to process that?

02:59:42.966 --> 02:59:43.929
That's a scary thought.

02:59:44.060 --> 02:59:45.040
It is a scary thought.

02:59:45.040 --> 03:00:19.752
I think it's also like, man, I have things outside of music I want to do, yeah Right, like, I have book ideas, I have movie ideas, I don't know, you know like, but I'm also like, but I'll, and I'll jot things down about those things in in one of my containers, you know just, I think I think like in my, in in my lifestyle, the way that I've tried to build my life to be sensitive to the rhythm and the timing of things yeah I, I can sense, like you know what this stuff, this stuff's gonna happen.

03:00:20.963 --> 03:00:21.746
It's just not right now.

03:00:21.746 --> 03:00:24.515
And it's not that I'm devaluing those.

03:00:24.515 --> 03:00:25.237
Those things.

03:00:25.237 --> 03:00:31.908
I'm actually valuing them more because I'm sensitive to those things.

03:00:31.908 --> 03:00:33.871
I'm actually valuing them more because I'm sensitive to it.

03:00:33.871 --> 03:00:36.315
It coming like it's coming.

03:00:36.376 --> 03:00:38.318
Yeah, like and and like.

03:00:38.318 --> 03:01:02.950
Sometimes ruminating on an idea for an extensive amount of time makes it more interesting, you know, like, and so there's some things that I've held on to for a really long time and, um, when it's time for those things to come out, because of the way that I've been chewing the cud, you know, like, like, what a like, what a cow does?

03:01:02.950 --> 03:01:08.810
Yeah, she's on the cud that when I spit that thing out, man, it's gonna's going to be like a dude, it's going to be really good yeah.

03:01:13.980 --> 03:01:15.591
There's stuff that I planned with Afterlife Parade.

03:01:15.591 --> 03:01:20.087
That's actually not going to happen with Afterlife Parade, but I think is going to I'm almost positive is going to happen with Saint Social.

03:01:20.087 --> 03:01:20.610
Yeah.

03:01:20.610 --> 03:01:21.272
And it's better.

03:01:21.272 --> 03:01:33.206
It's better that it's happening with this vehicle, so knowing when you think the idea is going to go with this thing, but it's actually better that it happens with this other thing.

03:01:33.788 --> 03:01:51.049
man, like I had to really like let go of afterlife parade at a certain point yeah I mean, I thought I, I thought that that band was done so to come back years later to, to, you know, reform it and and put out that ep was huge.

03:01:51.049 --> 03:01:59.351
Now the, the, its new form, is very different, yeah, and I had to release my ideas of what it was meant to be.

03:01:59.351 --> 03:02:07.288
But that being said, man, I'm so proud of it and like it's beautiful, it's like god it's, it's.

03:02:07.288 --> 03:02:17.447
And then who's to say that some of those dreams for it won't happen, but maybe it's like it's just in this incubation period?

03:02:17.467 --> 03:02:25.511
Yeah, yeah, I have to do something with these other things first so maybe not everything is lost.

03:02:26.682 --> 03:02:35.620
And also circling back to what you said, maybe the reason why it's it's not ready or it it's that you're working on other projects where it will provide you that specific thing.

03:02:36.040 --> 03:02:39.027
That platform that needed that component.

03:02:39.027 --> 03:02:42.093
Yeah, finances or or yeah we, we don't, I don't.

03:02:42.213 --> 03:02:51.984
I don't think we always understand how, like, um, I, I'm in, I'm kind of like, uh, the way that I work on songs is probably the way that I would be a painter if I was.

03:02:51.984 --> 03:02:57.450
Or like you have like multiple canvases in the room and you, you start doing one with.

03:02:57.450 --> 03:03:04.850
You know, you start working on one and you get to this point where it's like you're kind of stuck, so you go to the next thing and you start creating something new.

03:03:04.850 --> 03:03:13.685
So all of a sudden you've got like four things in progress.

03:03:13.685 --> 03:03:33.200
But by working on those other things, it re-informs the first one, the first one, and so I, I work on songs a lot like that, like where they're, they're like in different, um, there are different points in the process, and by working on multiple things at once, it sort of re-informs how I see each of them.

03:03:33.200 --> 03:03:37.676
And then and then, like I said, like I always, like I like write for albums.

03:03:37.718 --> 03:03:41.766
That's just my way and I know there's like a lot of debate about that today.

03:03:41.766 --> 03:03:43.550
Like is the album?

03:03:43.550 --> 03:03:47.181
Like, uh, is it obsolete?

03:03:47.181 --> 03:03:51.584
And I just don't care.

03:03:51.604 --> 03:03:53.105
There's no need to get caught up in that.

03:03:53.445 --> 03:04:00.251
I believe in the art of writing great singles, but if all you have is singles, especially if you're putting on a live show.

03:04:00.251 --> 03:04:06.515
Like you need that $2 song to set up the $5.

03:04:06.515 --> 03:04:10.322
Just as much as you need the two dollar lyric to set up the five dollar lyric, right.

03:04:11.042 --> 03:04:23.808
And that doesn't mean that just because it's a two dollar song, that it's doesn't have value yeah it does, you know, because you're trying to bring people on a journey and you need to change the palate.

03:04:23.808 --> 03:04:24.952
You got to have a palate cleanser.

03:04:24.952 --> 03:04:25.353
It's like.

03:04:25.353 --> 03:04:29.547
It's like appetizers and main dishes and this sort of yeah, man.

03:04:30.088 --> 03:04:58.130
So so, like you know, I want that in a record and I want that in my show and I, you know, I, I look at songs and and you know, know, like this is, this is a deep cut song, but, man, until I freaking love it and it's like it's like it's it's gonna be great in this one spot and I need it to do this thing, yeah, and so so, like you know, um, we can look at all of our projects like that too.

03:04:58.130 --> 03:05:11.738
They all have value, which is a very specific value, and it doesn't make them any less work, yeah yeah, it's just there there's a value so it's.

03:05:11.838 --> 03:05:17.736
It's no different than being like, um you know, working filmmaker, like I know that there.

03:05:17.935 --> 03:05:49.425
There are a lot of wedding filmmakers out there who want to make their their big, you know, sun dance yeah right and and maybe they struggle with feeling like they're in a rut, making those wedding films, right, yeah, but I would imagine, if it's anything like you know writing songs and being a working songwriter and you know, depending on, like how you're licensing music, because everybody it's all different like what if?

03:05:49.425 --> 03:05:50.075
What if you're licensing music because it's all different?

03:05:50.075 --> 03:05:59.315
What if you're learning things in making those films that propels that big film that you want to make?

03:05:59.315 --> 03:06:17.152
I just think we have to remind ourselves of what we're learning in the work for hire type of thing, what we're learning in in, in the work for hire type of thing and, like you know, are we allowing those skills to form, to form us as artists?

03:06:17.152 --> 03:06:17.753
Yeah.

03:06:17.852 --> 03:06:23.996
You know, like you do something repetitively enough, sure, it becomes easy, but and then you've got to do like a.

03:06:23.996 --> 03:06:27.362
You know, you just got to do the work to get there.

03:06:27.362 --> 03:06:29.027
Yeah, and you gotta, you gotta.

03:06:29.027 --> 03:06:30.912
Um, what do they, what do they call it?

03:06:30.912 --> 03:06:39.075
Um, uh, when you're working out and you change your workout up, it's uh yeah.

03:06:39.075 --> 03:06:39.995
Muscle confusion.

03:06:39.995 --> 03:06:40.977
Oh, okay, there we go.

03:06:40.977 --> 03:06:45.069
Muscle confusion, you know you gotta do like a an artistic muscle confusion.

03:06:45.069 --> 03:06:51.443
You know you gotta like change it up.

03:06:51.463 --> 03:06:53.212
You, you know, throw yourself in the deep end somehow and you can't just stop either.

03:06:53.212 --> 03:06:54.459
Or all of a sudden, muscle will start having like an atrophy.

03:06:54.459 --> 03:06:56.684
Yeah, he's gotta keep practicing yeah, yeah.

03:06:56.704 --> 03:07:08.030
So sometimes you know, like, take stock of of, like, what you're doing and enjoy it and see the value in it and then find a way to throw in some muscle confusion.

03:07:08.030 --> 03:07:11.415
I don't know if any of that's helpful, but I hope so.

03:07:12.115 --> 03:07:12.476
All right.

03:07:12.476 --> 03:07:16.529
So, man dude, we're going to have you on another episode.

03:07:16.529 --> 03:07:16.890
Cool man.

03:07:16.890 --> 03:07:20.024
It still didn't feel like we just barely scratched the surface.

03:07:20.024 --> 03:07:23.172
Honestly, what the Okay?

03:07:23.172 --> 03:07:24.373
All right.

03:07:24.373 --> 03:07:35.031
Now, as much as we would like to learn more, we're going to have to go into the closing and guys don't forget to dm me or dm quinn to you know, let him go back in the next episode.

03:07:35.852 --> 03:07:36.593
Okay, all right.

03:07:36.593 --> 03:07:42.349
So closing, we're gonna have this and then we're gonna be done in wow.

03:07:42.349 --> 03:07:52.046
So, as a looking back on your music career so far, what is only one piece of advice, um or wisdom that you wish you could you had known when you started out?

03:07:52.046 --> 03:08:01.341
Of all the things you mentioned from um, you know, um, having that two dollar song to get to the five dollar song and being able to stick it out when you're grieving.

03:08:01.341 --> 03:08:08.324
There's so many things you have said, but what is one advice you would you wish you had known when you started out?

03:08:08.324 --> 03:08:13.733
And also one more thing you did mention about you were prioritizing on record of her band.

03:08:13.733 --> 03:08:18.226
Now, you wished you had put band first, because you wanted to have that sense of family.

03:08:18.226 --> 03:08:26.413
Now, going back to questioning, what is one thing, a piece of advice, you wish you had known, so that everyone who wants to be a musician can learn from?

03:08:27.263 --> 03:08:46.226
I would go back to, to what, what, um, ultimately that manager in la was trying to communicate to me, that that you know really own what makes you unique, and I think that the way that that that happens is by doing the work.

03:08:46.525 --> 03:09:03.806
Okay, you know, really getting to know yourself through, you know, spiritual practices, or great therapy, or journaling, or you know even like, allowing people that you trust in your life to help.

03:09:03.806 --> 03:09:11.162
You see, sometimes you need outside sources to help you see yourself like what makes you different from everybody else.

03:09:11.162 --> 03:09:27.043
And you know, once you get a like, a, like a, just even like a sliver of that, to begin to shave away like your influences don't, don't throw them out right like, like, like.

03:09:27.043 --> 03:09:30.635
There's a reason you're drawn to, to your influences.

03:09:30.635 --> 03:09:58.266
In fact, you might need to like, really sit down and and get to the bottom of why you like certain things and and how, what that tells you about you and and so, once you really like, own you, and then you, just you, create from that place of of pure voice and you find your own sense of joy and you find your own joy in it.

03:09:58.847 --> 03:10:01.980
Yeah, because, man, you should enjoy, you should enjoy you.

03:10:01.980 --> 03:10:12.255
Yeah, you should enjoy you, you should love you and you should make from that place of loving yourself, you know, whatever that looks like.

03:10:12.700 --> 03:10:14.184
So find your joy, guys.

03:10:14.184 --> 03:10:24.649
Okay, happiness is temporary, but joy it's a constant thing that you always have in your life, that, no matter how things get hard, you can always have that fall back on.

03:10:24.649 --> 03:10:28.775
Yeah, yeah man, so Fuck, I wish we had more time.

03:10:28.775 --> 03:10:30.325
Okay, yeah, yeah, man, so fuck, I wish we had more time.

03:10:30.325 --> 03:10:34.745
Okay, so, for those that want to follow you, where can people, uh, find you on social media platforms?

03:10:35.585 --> 03:10:37.629
uh, at quinn erwin.

03:10:37.629 --> 03:10:56.114
So q-u-i-n-n-e-r-w-i-n, I almost, I almost, I almost wanted to go like t-i-double-ga-er, like Tigger, q-i-double-an-an, you know, like no, I'm sorry, that was wild.

03:10:56.114 --> 03:11:03.463
I probably went over my head, but when I'm editing this I'll probably get it.

03:11:03.463 --> 03:11:10.834
If you're into Pooh, you know, like the character Winnie the Pooh, yes, His buddy Tigger oh yes, yes, t-i, yes, t-i double go.

03:11:10.834 --> 03:11:18.953
Tigger, that spells tigger yeah q-i double n yeah, I was messing around, but um, okay.

03:11:19.055 --> 03:11:22.441
Well, now that's all at the platform, except, well, did you know?

03:11:22.441 --> 03:11:26.891
His website is on tumblr or hosted by whatever you know what we said.

03:11:27.153 --> 03:11:31.141
It probably needs to get updated big time, man, yeah now here's the last message.

03:11:32.043 --> 03:11:39.751
Um, what message would you like to leave to our audience, especially for those that draw inspiration from your career and your achievements after watching this video?

03:11:39.751 --> 03:11:42.282
What is one message that you want to give to them?

03:11:43.283 --> 03:12:01.513
um, I would just say that like it's such a honor and a privilege to be here, to be heard and to be seen and known, and you know, I, I hope that what I make makes people feel seen and known.

03:12:01.739 --> 03:13:07.171
You know, like, maybe somehow you know me, owning me, yeah, also makes people feel like they can like be themselves, right, and and so to me it's, it's like not only something I just love to do, but it's like an honor, it feels like a privilege, pleasure to like make things that that hopefully give people that sense of love and hope and peace and all the good stuff you know about themselves, you know, and about the world and about future and about, like, just just existing in a world and obviously it's a complicated world, it's, you know, we, we, we, it's it's hard traveling through this life, right, but you know, I, I, my belief is that that the world and the history of the world bends toward, toward love, and and so I, I hope that that people feel that when they connect with me or listen to what I'm making or seeing, and and then from there I just hope people go and do the same for themselves.

03:13:07.191 --> 03:13:22.367
You know, go make stuff that that impacts people that reveals beauty and reveals how wonderful life can be, and not in the sense of escapism I'm not into that per se.

03:13:22.367 --> 03:13:37.472
I mean I binge Netflix just like everybody else but I think the art that speaks to me the most is is art that reveals even the beauty and pain you know and and so like, like.

03:13:37.554 --> 03:13:40.306
I think I want to see more art like that out there.

03:13:40.306 --> 03:13:54.204
Whatever that is you know, in film or music or photography, you know there's just so much, so much, uh, beauty discover truth, so much truth to find, like Keats, the poet.

03:13:54.204 --> 03:13:56.650
Keats said truth is beauty, beauty is truth.

03:13:56.650 --> 03:13:57.452
That's all you need to know.

03:13:58.440 --> 03:14:02.652
And we have all these chaotic noises around the world.

03:14:02.652 --> 03:14:15.606
But what makes it more bearable and more easy to consume is the fact that we, as artists, have the ability to condense all of them into one piece of physical object.

03:14:15.606 --> 03:14:22.932
Uh, it could be audible, it could be anything, but the fact that we have that ability to do that is a gift it is a gift, you know.

03:14:22.951 --> 03:14:30.612
Uh, art is a mirror, you know and and, like you know, maybe sometimes we get to choose what we reflect back.

03:14:30.612 --> 03:15:00.300
And so you know, what I'm hoping people see when they look at the mirror that I'm building is like them, as beauty them, you know, like I hope they see how beautiful they are, because that's what I see when I look out from the stage is I see incredible people, you know, like people that are love and hope and peace and joy, and I've always tried to make music that is affirmational, you know.

03:15:00.300 --> 03:15:01.525
I hope they feel affirmed.

03:15:04.484 --> 03:15:11.006
They just need to feel, seen and heard, and I think that starts with discovering the right place, and I think your music win.

03:15:11.006 --> 03:15:25.425
I think when you reach that certain amount of people, that's when you have created your parade and that parade will eventually culminate in the whole goddamn arena.

03:15:25.445 --> 03:15:27.170
You know, man, I would love nothing more.

03:15:27.170 --> 03:15:28.372
That would be a lot of fun.

03:15:28.940 --> 03:15:29.159
You will.

03:15:29.159 --> 03:15:30.342
You got a second win would be a lot of fun.

03:15:30.342 --> 03:15:30.563
You will.

03:15:30.563 --> 03:15:31.564
You got a second win.

03:15:31.564 --> 03:15:32.925
Make it count.

03:15:32.925 --> 03:15:35.831
Thank you, all right, all right, guys.

03:15:35.831 --> 03:15:36.933
That's it for this episode.

03:15:36.933 --> 03:15:38.135
Thank you so much for watching.

03:15:38.135 --> 03:15:42.884
If you like this type of content, don't forget to hit like and subscribe.

03:15:42.884 --> 03:16:01.189
Bro, we're going to have more banger episodes like this, more insightful information like this, well as um conversations about hard topics, because I you are the first guest to have such an in-depth conversation about something that's uncomfortable to talk about, so I really really want to thank you for that.

03:16:01.189 --> 03:16:02.050
Um.

03:16:02.050 --> 03:16:05.666
You're like the sixth guest so far, um, but you're the first one to do that, so I really really appreciate you being open about that.

03:16:05.666 --> 03:16:05.987
Thank you, man.

03:16:05.987 --> 03:16:09.816
That means a lot to me, and thank you for for first one to do that, so I really really appreciate you being open about that.

03:16:10.037 --> 03:16:10.518
Thank you, man.

03:16:10.518 --> 03:16:13.587
That means a lot to me, and thank you for the opportunity to go there.

03:16:13.587 --> 03:16:15.004
Thank you for going there with me.

03:16:15.627 --> 03:16:16.228
That's really cool.

03:16:16.228 --> 03:16:20.927
The world is painful, but we need to start creating our jewelry.

03:16:20.927 --> 03:16:22.972
All right Hit record.

03:16:22.972 --> 03:16:24.709
I'll see you all in the next episode.

03:16:24.709 --> 03:16:26.059
You want to say goodbye, Quinn.

03:16:26.522 --> 03:16:27.245
See you guys later.

03:16:27.559 --> 03:16:37.236
And so you want to say goodbye Quid, see you guys later, and cut.